On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> the external objective environment (the weather, a syringe full of > drugs, a punch to the face) can cause a big subjective change. > > > I have no doubt that this is true. The point is that IF you have a > complete 3p theory of the brain-body, you can't prove that the subjective > experience exist. > I don't need a proof because I have something better, I have direct experience of the subjective. I don't have direct experience of YOUR conscious experience because it is a logical contradiction, if I did have it you wouldn't be you, you'd be me. > And a subjective experience like a itch can cause a external objective >> effect, like moving the matter in your hand to scratch the matter in your >> nose. >> > > >Sure. But again, if someone does not believe in that subjective > experience, then a 3p causal description at some level will explain the > external objective effect without mentioning the subjective experience. I > agree with you of course, but that is what makes a part of the problem. > Problem? What's the problem? If I do not believe in your subjective experience, as you say above, then I certainly don't need to explain it. And if I do believe in your subjective experience then I can say it was caused by the way matter interacts (which can be fully described by information) just as I already know from direct experience that my subjective experience is caused. And if I also believe that consciousness is fundamental, that is to say a sequence of "What caused that?" questions is not infinite and consciousness comes at the end, then there is nothing more that can be said on the subject. >>>> I think consciousness is probably just the way information feels when >>>> it is being processed; >>>> >>> >>> >>>In which computations. You admit yourself that consciousness cannot >>> be localized in one brain, >>> >> >> >> Yes, because computations can't be localized either. >> > > > Excellent. Like the numbers. They don't belong to the type of object > having any physical attributes like position, velocity or mass. > And position not being relevant to consciousness is the reason your increasingly convoluted thought experiment about where the "real you" is located is worthless. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
