On 23 Dec 2013, at 20:11, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Bruno,
Thanks for your comments. However I think you are coming at Reality
from the POV of human logico-mathematical theory whose results you
are trying to impose on reality.
Not at all. I start from molecular biology, which suggest we are
Turing emulable, and I derive consequences only from that assumption.
I don't defend any truth. I just say, if we are machine then ...
My approach is to closely examine reality and then try to figure out
how it works and what ITS innate rules and structures are.
Not sure what you mean by "examining reality".
I would probably agree with much of what you say, if you were saying
it about human logico-mathematical structures, but the logico-
mathematical structure of reality is not bound by human rules.
In which logic? What are your starting assumption? You seem to be
unaware that a "reality" is only an assumption (except for
consciousness here and now). We might be dreaming, for example.
It runs according to its own logic and science is the process of
trying to figure out what those rules are and how they work...
For example, reality is clearly a computational process,
It cannot be. Independently of any assumption.
and it runs against pure information which is the fundamental stuff
of the universe. There is simply no other way current information
states of reality could result from previous ones other than by a
computational process.
You seem to ignore the UD-Argument. It refutes that idea.
How that computational process works must be determined by examining
reality itself. We may try to make sense of it in terms of
traditional human math theory, but when there are differences then
reality always trumps human math theory, which applies to human math
rather than reality's logico-mathematical system.
I need to know exactly what is your theory, which seems to be non
computationalist. You need non-comp to get a primitive physical reality.
Bruno
Edgar
On Friday, December 20, 2013 6:52:54 PM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
All,
The fundamental nature of reality is examined in detail in my recent
book on Reality available on Amazon under my name.
Marchal is on the right track, but reality consists not just of
numbers (math) but is a running logical structure analogous to
software that continually computes the current state of the
universe. Just as software includes but doesn't consist only of
numbers and math, so does reality. In fact the equations of physical
science make sense only when embedded in a logical structure just as
is the case in computational reality.
Modern science has a major lacuna, the notion that all of reality is
mathematical, that prevents science from grasping the complete
nature of reality. In truth all of reality is logical, as is
software, and the mathematics is just a subset of the logic. After
all, modern science with its misguided insistence that all of
reality is mathematical, has had nothing useful to say about the
nature of either consciousness or the present moment, the two most
fundamental aspects of experience. However I present a computational
based information approach to these in my book among many other
things.
The second clarification that needs to be made to the post on
Marchal's work is that human math and logic are distinct from the
actual math and logic that computes reality. The human version is a
generalized and extended approximation of the actual that differs
from the actual logico-mathematical structure of reality in
important ways (e.g. infinities and infinitesimals which don't
actually exist in external reality).
I can explain further if anyone is interested, or you can read about
it in my book...
Edgar Owen
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