Other than my mistake about the total number of H2 fueling stations, what specifically was incorrect?
My PGP public key: https://vanderwal.us/evdl_pgp.key August 23, 2021 5:57 PM, "Mark Abramowitz via EV" <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: > Sums it up nicely with incorrect information? > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > >> On Aug 23, 2021, at 5:02 PM, Alan Arrison via EV <ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote: >> >> Enough with the hydrogen, Peter sums it up nicely. >> >>> On 8/23/2021 7:27 PM, Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: >>> I thought it was obvious I was comparing BEV vs FCEV. Apparently not. >> >> Higher cost to build? Well, yeah. But don’t BEVs cost more to build, >>> An FCEV is an EV with a fuel cell, so most of the extra BEV costs are still >>> there (still needs an >>> electric motor/controller/batteries/etc) >>> You say a little by using a smaller battery pack but then spend a LOT more >>> of the fuel cell, >>> tank(s), etc. >> >> Higher cost to operate. For the consumer? Really? >>> Compared to an BEV? Yes, absolutely, much higher. It gets even worse if you >>> use green H2 since it >>> requires about 3-4x as much electricity per mile to make the H2 vs charging >>> an EV. >> >> Lower efficiency. Lower efficiency of what, and to whom? >>> Miles per kWh. To EVERYONE. >>> Modern LiIon batteries are about 90% efficient at storing energy, chargers >>> are also around 90%, >>> equaling roughly 80% efficient at stroing electricity (and that can be >>> improved) >>> Modern electrolyzers are around 80-85% efficient and fuel cells are around >>> 60%, which means a >>> combined efficiency of ~50%, and that does NOT count any energy used to >>> compress the H2, which >>> front what I've read brings the total storage efficiency down to around >>> 25-30%...at best. You'll >>> also have additional losses charging/discharging the batteries on the FCEV. >> >> No existing infrastructure. Again, this all depends. If you have access to a >> station and 5 minutes >> to fill every 300 miles or so, that’s plenty . >>> Currently there are less than 40 public H2 stations around LA. There are >>> zero H2 stations anywhere >>> else in the USA. >>> Currently, in the USA, there are over 1,000 public charging stations for >>> every public H2 station. >>> This number is increasing because while they are constantly installing new >>> EV charging stations, >>> they are shutting down H2 stations. >>> For all intents and purposes, there is NO H2 fueling infrastructure in the >>> USA, while Public EV >>> charging stations are becoming common acrost most of the USA. Extremely >>> common on the coasts. >>> >>> As stated above, if you are cracking water for you FCEV, then it takes 3-4x >>> as much electricity per >>> mile to charge at home (compared to a BEV) >>> >>> The weight of modern FCEV is roughly the same as the weight of comparable >>> BEVs, so that's not an >>> advantage to either. >>> >>> They have EVs available today that can recharge almost as fast as refueling >>> a FCEV, and you can >>> hook up the charge cord yourself, from what I've read every H2 fueling >>> station requires a trained >>> individual to connect the hose. Waiting for him/her to show up could >>> elliminate the remaining time >>> advantage. >>> >>> Consumers won't purchase FCEV unless they perceive and advantage TO THEM. >>> Let me put it simply, what advantages do YOU see to ANYONE other than the >>> folks that make H2? >>> How do you see these advantages making FCEV economically viable? >>> Viable enough to justify creating a nation wide H2 fueling infracstructure >>> from scratch? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >>> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >>> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org >> No other addresses in TO and CC fields >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive >> LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > _______________________________________________ > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org > No other addresses in TO and CC fields > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive > LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org _______________________________________________ Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org No other addresses in TO and CC fields UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/ LIST INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
