Let's be clear. The only FUD relating to hydrogen is avocates stoking fear around the use of batteries. Hydrogen is first a financial dead end. There is an easily calcuable ratio of increased cost per mile for the privilege of using hydrogen. There will always be more maintenance and complexity. There will probably be more cost to manufacture a hydrogen car. The only reason to use hydrogen is to perpetuate the gasoline model of refueling for electric vehicles. That means another profit stream for the provider. Something more for the users to bear financially. My friend and colleague was appalled about her lease of a Murkri (intentionally misspelled) after I explained what she really got. She explained that she needed the range to get to Paradise CA. Her family home where she grew up. If she was properly educated she would have known that she could have filled up over night for the trip home. A double screwing for sure. Lawrence Rhodes
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 12:48 PM, [email protected]<[email protected]> wrote: Send EV mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of EV digest..." Also, please be careful not to append the entire digest to your reply. Many mail systems do this by default. Trim or delete the digest text from the bottom of your message, and quote only the parts to which you're replying. Today's Topics: 1. (Might Reach Production): VW electric beach buggy (brucedp5) 2. Re: OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid (Mark Abramowitz) 3. Re: OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid (Robert Bruninga) 4. EVfire: Tesla-S towed to a garage catches on fire> total loss (v) (brucedp5) 5. Re: OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid (Willie) 6. Re: OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid (Willie) 7. Re: 2011-2012 VS 2013-2015 LEAF Battery Packs (Jay Summet) 8. Re: OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid (Robert Bruninga) 9. waymo: clarify my points: auton EVs on NPR Fresh Air program ... (brucedp5) 10. Re: OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid (Mark Abramowitz) 11. 2013-2015 LEAF Battery Pack Install in a 2011-2012 LEAF (Dex's Chris) 12. Re: waymo: clarify my points: auton EVs on NPR Fresh Air program ... (Gail Lucas) 13. Re: OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid (Mark Abramowitz) 14. Re: waymo: clarify my points: auton EVs on NPR Fresh Air program ... (Willie) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 15:25:37 -0600 (CST) From: brucedp5 <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [EVDL] (Might Reach Production): VW electric beach buggy Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [ref http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-VW-Building-Ford-us-30k-ID-Pre-orders-Beach-Buggy-fwd-Abandoned-tp4692222.html https://www.carscoops.com/2018/12/vw-electric-beach-buggy-debut-geneva-might-reach-production/ Electric VW Could Debut In Geneva, Might Reach Production December 6, 2018 Volkswagen is preparing to launch an assortment of new electric vehicles ... https://images.carscoops.com/2018/12/32a3766b-vw-buggy-up.jpg (vw-buggy) ... ] http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=vw+beach&days=0&sort=date search evdl archive vw beach VW has a long history of pr vaporware> e-microbus in 20?? ... Aug 21, 2017 VW is claiming new EVs will use 48-volt systems ... Feb 09, 2016 For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: http://evdl.org/archive/ {brucedp.neocities.org} -- Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 17:49:16 -0800 From: Mark Abramowitz <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Sorry, that last part should read ?though unintentionally? - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Dec 20, 2018, at 5:37 PM, Mark Abramowitz <[email protected]> wrote: > > Some of you know that I?ve been an advocate for BEVs for a number of decades, > and of hydrogen fuel cell EVs (the ?other? electric vehicle) for a bit less. > > In my day job, I recommend and advocate major funding of both battery > electrics and hydrogen fuel cell applications. > > One of my many volunteer roles (?working for free? as Bruce would put it) is > serving as Immediate Past Chair of the California Hydrogen Business Council. > > As some of you may know, the renewable content of hydrogen used in > transportation exceeds that of the grid. And the industry itself is on a path > of 100% carbon-free hydrogen . > > Not long ago, the Hydrogen Council, made up of the CEOs of leaders in the > industry, released a formal policy supporting 100% carbon-free in > transportation hydrogen by 2030. This is 15 years before the 100% carbon-free > grid date of 2045 adopted by the California legislature. > > Tomorrow a release will go out announcing the support of this policy by the > California Hydrogen Business Council. > > The adopted language follows. For those of you who have completely misstated > the facts, though intentionally, I hope that you will read it carefully. > > December 18, 2018 > > CHBC Endorses Full Decarbonization Goal of Hydrogen in Transportation by 2030 > > The California Hydrogen Business Council (CHBC) on behalf of its members is > pleased to endorse the commitment of the Hydrogen Council to the goal of > decarbonizing 100% of hydrogen fuel used in transport by 2030. > > The goal was announced by the Hydrogen Council on September 14, 2018 at the > Global Climate Action Summit in San Francisco, hosted by Governor Brown: > > ?The Hydrogen Council, a global CEO coalition bringing together 50+ leaders > in the energy, transport and industry space, is committed to an ambitious > goal of ensuring that 100% of hydrogen fuel used in different modes of > transportation is decarbonised by 2030. We are therefore calling on > governments to build a global alliance that will create the necessary > regulatory frameworks to help make this commitment a reality. Transport may > be our first target, but with right level of support we will see positive > effects across many sectors. We believe hydrogen can play a key role in the > clean energy transition and we are ready to work together with governments to > help create the right technical, financial and legislative environment that > will enable decarbonised hydrogen to scale up.? > > Through this commitment to the 2030 goal, hydrogen for transportation can > achieve full decarbonization 15 years ahead of the SB 100 mandate of 100% > carbon-free electricity by 2045. Attainment of the stated goal of 100% > carbon-free hydrogen fuel by 2030 will maintain the position of hydrogen fuel > cell electric drive as the lowest-carbon alternative among electric drive > solutions. > The hydrogen industry is committed to helping California dramatically reduce > emissions despite increasing transportation demand by providing a clean fuel > that has proven itself in both on- and off-road applications and is emerging > as an important alternative to diesel in marine, rail and port applications. > > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181220/0efd6348/attachment.html> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 23:28:04 -0500 From: Robert Bruninga <[email protected]> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid Message-ID: <CALdCfNJPHQP0Wx=k_prxwrf57x3fd6dzv9byjkcbp4povfg...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" But just setting a goal to produce "carbon free hydrogen" is still just snake oil, hog wash that can never compete with EVs. bob : > > On Dec 20, 2018, at 5:37 PM, Mark Abramowitz <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Some of you know that I?ve been an advocate for BEVs for a number of > decades, and of hydrogen fuel cell EVs (the ?other? electric vehicle) for a > bit less. > > > > In my day job, I recommend and advocate major funding of both battery > electrics and hydrogen fuel cell applications. > > > > One of my many volunteer roles (?working for free? as Bruce would put > it) is serving as Immediate Past Chair of the California Hydrogen Business > Council. > > > > As some of you may know, the renewable content of hydrogen used in > transportation exceeds that of the grid. And the industry itself is on a > path of 100% carbon-free hydrogen . > > > > Not long ago, the Hydrogen Council, made up of the CEOs of leaders in > the industry, released a formal policy supporting 100% carbon-free in > transportation hydrogen by 2030. This is 15 years before the 100% > carbon-free grid date of 2045 adopted by the California legislature. > > > > Tomorrow a release will go out announcing the support of this policy by > the California Hydrogen Business Council. > > > > The adopted language follows. For those of you who have completely > misstated the facts, though intentionally, I hope that you will read it > carefully. > > > > December 18, 2018 > > > > CHBC Endorses Full Decarbonization Goal of Hydrogen in Transportation by > 2030 > > > > The California Hydrogen Business Council (CHBC) on behalf of its members > is pleased to endorse the commitment of the Hydrogen Council to the goal of > decarbonizing 100% of hydrogen fuel used in transport by 2030. > > > > The goal was announced by the Hydrogen Council on September 14, 2018 at > the Global Climate Action Summit in San Francisco, hosted by Governor Brown: > > > > ?The Hydrogen Council, a global CEO coalition bringing together 50+ > leaders in the energy, transport and industry space, is committed to an > ambitious goal of ensuring that 100% of hydrogen fuel used in different > modes of transportation is decarbonised by 2030. We are therefore calling > on governments to build a global alliance that will create the necessary > regulatory frameworks to help make this commitment a reality. Transport may > be our first target, but with right level of support we will see positive > effects across many sectors. We believe hydrogen can play a key role in the > clean energy transition and we are ready to work together with governments > to help create the right technical, financial and legislative environment > that will enable decarbonised hydrogen to scale up.? > > > > Through this commitment to the 2030 goal, hydrogen for transportation > can achieve full decarbonization 15 years ahead of the SB 100 mandate of > 100% carbon-free electricity by 2045. Attainment of the stated goal of > 100% carbon-free hydrogen fuel by 2030 will maintain the position of > hydrogen fuel cell electric drive as the lowest-carbon alternative among > electric drive solutions. > > The hydrogen industry is committed to helping California dramatically > reduce emissions despite increasing transportation demand by providing a > clean fuel that has proven itself in both on- and off-road applications and > is emerging as an important alternative to diesel in marine, rail and port > applications. > > > > > > - Mark > > > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181220/0efd6348/attachment.html > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181220/07383edd/attachment.html> ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 23:46:37 -0600 (CST) From: brucedp5 <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [EVDL] EVfire: Tesla-S towed to a garage catches on fire> total loss (v) Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 https://electrek.co/2018/12/19/tesla-model-s-fire-towing/ Tesla Model S catches on fire after being towed to a garage, Tesla is investigating Dec. 19th 2018 Fred Lambert [image https://i1.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2018/12/Tesla-Model-S-fire-tow.jpg video https://youtu.be/iThVZxDiilc Tesla Mysteriously Catches Fire 10 Mins After Being Towed ] A Tesla Model S vehicle in the Bay Area has caught on fire and burned down to a total loss yesterday. The cause of the fire is unknown but it happened after the Model S was being towed to a garage. Chris, the owner of the Tesla Model S, said that he had a flat tire and he had the vehicle towed to a tire shop in Los Gatos. About 5 to 10 minutes later, he said that smoke started to come out of the vehicle. ?I heard a strange hissing sound. I came out and there was smoke everywhere. So the shop immediately called the fire department. And by the time they got here, the car was already on fire.? Santa Clara County Fire Captain Bill Murphy added: ?The vehicle started off-gassing, making a loud hissing noise and producing some additional smoke. That?s an indication that there?s some type of combustion process happening in the batteries.? They managed to control the fire, but it ended reigniting later on, which can be an issue with battery fires. It happened twice earlier this year with Tesla battery packs. The battery pack of a Model X involved in the fatal accident in Mountain View earlier this year reignited days after catching on fire in the crash. A few months later, a Tesla vehicle was also found in a junkyard fire. In the case of this new incident, a Tesla spokesperson said that they are investigating: ?We are currently investigating the matter and are in touch with local first responders. We are glad to hear that everyone is safe.? Here?s the report from CBS Bay Area: Electrek?s Take Fires following accidents are not really worrying because they are often inevitable after several crashes, regardless of the type of powertrain, electric or gas-powered, but it is different for fires without any crash. It?s even more important to find the cause in those cases. Earlier this year, the battery pack of a Tesla Model S caught on fire in Los Angeles seemingly on its own without any accident and Tesla said that it was an ?extraordinarily unusual occurrence?. They are still investigating the cause. Tesla is not the only electric automaker to deal with this issue. Earlier this month, a Jaguar I-PACE electric SUV caught on fire while parked in a driveway. In this case, it?s interesting that it apparently happened after the vehicle was towed. They didn?t specify if it was towed on a flatbed, which is Tesla?s recommended way, or with wheels on the ground, which Tesla warns against. Either way, it?s worth investigating. But who knows what happened. Last time we reported about a Tesla catching on fire seemingly on its own, Tesla said that someone actually fired a bullet into the battery pack. [? electrek.co] https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/video/3996702-tesla-mysteriously-catches-fire-10-mins-after-being-towed/ Program: KPIX 5 News EveningCategories: Automotive, News, Local News, KPIXTV, Top Story Tesla Mysteriously Catches Fire 10 Mins After Being Towed Betty Yu has new details on the Tesla Model S that caught fire Tuesday in Los Gatos. (12-18-2018) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iThVZxDiilc Tesla Model S catches fire in Los Gatos, reignites hours later https://www.cnbc.com/.../tesla-model-s-catches-fire-in-los-gatos-reignites-hours-later-a... 1 day ago - Tesla Model S catches fire in California parking lot and reignites hours later at a tow yard. A Tesla Model S car caught fire in a business parking lot in Los Gatos, California, on Tuesday, according to the Santa Clara County Fire Department. ... A Tesla Model S caught fire Tuesday in ... https://abc30.com/video-tesla-model-s-bursts-into-flames-twice-in-1-day-in-ca/4935547/ Tesla Model S catches fire twice in 1 day in Los Gatos, California December 20, 2018 LOS GATOS, Calif. -- A Tesla owner in Northern California says his Model S caught fire not once - but twice - on the same day ... https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/18/tesla-model-s-bursts-into-flames-at-los-gatos-tire-repair-shop/ Tesla Model S bursts into flames at Los Gatos tire shop, re-ignites at tow yard Dec 19, 2018 ... Incident evokes wreck in March where battery re-ignition concerns prompted safety bulletin for firefighters ... just after 2 p.m. and found the all-electric vehicle in flames outside the business. ... The car had been dropped off at the site five to 10 minutes earlier after it got a ... after the crash, the fire department determined the Model X was safe enough ... For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: http://evdl.org/archive/ {brucedp.neocities.org} -- Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 06:33:38 -0600 From: Willie <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 12/20/18 7:49 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: > Sorry, that last part should read ?though unintentionally? > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > >> On Dec 20, 2018, at 5:37 PM, Mark Abramowitz <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Some of you know that I?ve been an advocate for BEVs for a number of >> decades, and of hydrogen fuel cell EVs (the ?other? electric vehicle) for a >> bit less. Assuming hydrogen vehicles are off topic here as you indicate, perhaps you can point me to information that supports your apparent belief that there is a future for hydrogen? I supposed "decarbonized hydrogen" is from electrically "cracked" water rather than from natural gas? Will any source you cite address the efficiency and distribution problems? Hydrogen does seem like a very obvious dead end to me but I'm open to additional information. I do find it intriguing that Toyota, Nikola and others seem so willing to pour money down an apparent rat hole. Though I do understand that Toyota's primary motivation is delay of EV progress. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 07:24:13 -0600 From: Willie <[email protected]> To: Mark Abramowitz <[email protected]>, Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 12/21/18 6:58 AM, Mark Abramowitz wrote: > Willie, > > Fuel cell vehicles are NOT off-topic (check the charter), but I put OT in > there just because I thought that this particular conversation was OT - but > perhaps it isn?t OT. > > Is there a future? Not really the subject of the post, and also a question > I?m not sure how I would ever answer a question like that with a ?source?. So > I?ll avoid thread-crapping my own thread. Well, you seemed to be our window to the hydrogen world. Surely "the hydrogen people" have some real or hoped for solutions to the distribution and efficiencies problems. Else, they would not be pursuing. At least sincere and honest people would not be pursuing. > Yes, decarbonized hydrogen can absolutely include cracked water. I don?t know > what the original intent of the Hydrogen Council was, but I would think that > it would also include non-petroleum based natural gas. The concept of "non-petroleum natural gas" was foreign to me. But I now see and guess that might be feed lot and landfill methane. I don't see how "non-petroleum natural gas" would be more virtuous than real natural gas. Or somehow be associated with "decarbonized hydrogen". Of course, "cracked water" has the advantage of being free of the carbon stigma if the electric power used has wind/PV/etc sources. Thanks! ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:18:09 -0500 From: Jay Summet <[email protected]> To: Dex's Chris <[email protected]>, [email protected], Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] 2011-2012 VS 2013-2015 LEAF Battery Packs Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed I'm afraid I CC'd an old/outdated email address for Cor. I don't know his current address, but if you post your question on the EV email list he is on that and there are a lot of other people who may have answers as well. http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#subs Jay On 12/21/18 2:31 AM, Dex's Chris wrote: > Hello Jay, > > In Benjamin Nelson's video > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0dDHJKzX78>, your comment was: "I just > opened my 2013, and there are a few changes: 1) two HV connectors on the > front, one for the motor, the other for the cabin heater." > > Our project involves the installation of a 2015 donor pack into a 2011 > car.? Our questions are: 1) How was cabin heat is?supplied from the > pack?in the 2011-2012 LEAFs as there's no connector on the front of the > pack for cabin heat?? 2)? Are the motor HV connectors identical? (i.e. > if installed as-is, without any mod, the net effect is loss of cabin heat) > > Any insight or advice is appreciated! > > Regards, > Dex > Dallas, TX > 469.765.7621 ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:57:19 -0500 From: Robert Bruninga <[email protected]> To: Mark Abramowitz <[email protected]> Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" I don?t see anything in the statement that said HOW they were going to decarbonize the generation of hydrogen. The only method I know is the inefficient use of electricity to hydrolyze hydrogen from water. Yes, that can work in places where surplus electricity is abundant? but is still quite inefficient and the energy returned is still double the cost of electricity (at about 4 cents per kWh wholesale). Plus another 25% to compress it for use in ?tanks? for cars. Not even mentioning the total lack of any kind of distribution system? compared to the outlet in everyone?s garage and parking lot. IMHO the only thing that might eventually be useful is from huge truck-depot to truck-depot for long haul where only a single hydrogen station is needed. Bob *From:* Mark Abramowitz <[email protected]> *Sent:* Thursday, December 20, 2018 11:46 PM *To:* Robert Bruninga <[email protected]> *Cc:* Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> *Subject:* Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid Hey, it?s more than that in the statement, if you read carefully. But you obviously have an FUD agenda, so the statement wasn?t really meant for you. I won?t respond to you again. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone On Dec 20, 2018, at 8:28 PM, Robert Bruninga <[email protected]> wrote: But just setting a goal to produce "carbon free hydrogen" is still just snake oil, hog wash that can never compete with EVs. bob : > On Dec 20, 2018, at 5:37 PM, Mark Abramowitz <[email protected]> wrote: > > Some of you know that I?ve been an advocate for BEVs for a number of decades, and of hydrogen fuel cell EVs (the ?other? electric vehicle) for a bit less. > > In my day job, I recommend and advocate major funding of both battery electrics and hydrogen fuel cell applications. > > One of my many volunteer roles (?working for free? as Bruce would put it) is serving as Immediate Past Chair of the California Hydrogen Business Council. > > As some of you may know, the renewable content of hydrogen used in transportation exceeds that of the grid. And the industry itself is on a path of 100% carbon-free hydrogen . > > Not long ago, the Hydrogen Council, made up of the CEOs of leaders in the industry, released a formal policy supporting 100% carbon-free in transportation hydrogen by 2030. This is 15 years before the 100% carbon-free grid date of 2045 adopted by the California legislature. > > Tomorrow a release will go out announcing the support of this policy by the California Hydrogen Business Council. > > The adopted language follows. For those of you who have completely misstated the facts, though intentionally, I hope that you will read it carefully. > > December 18, 2018 > > CHBC Endorses Full Decarbonization Goal of Hydrogen in Transportation by 2030 > > The California Hydrogen Business Council (CHBC) on behalf of its members is pleased to endorse the commitment of the Hydrogen Council to the goal of decarbonizing 100% of hydrogen fuel used in transport by 2030. > > The goal was announced by the Hydrogen Council on September 14, 2018 at the Global Climate Action Summit in San Francisco, hosted by Governor Brown: > > ?The Hydrogen Council, a global CEO coalition bringing together 50+ leaders in the energy, transport and industry space, is committed to an ambitious goal of ensuring that 100% of hydrogen fuel used in different modes of transportation is decarbonised by 2030. We are therefore calling on governments to build a global alliance that will create the necessary regulatory frameworks to help make this commitment a reality. Transport may be our first target, but with right level of support we will see positive effects across many sectors. We believe hydrogen can play a key role in the clean energy transition and we are ready to work together with governments to help create the right technical, financial and legislative environment that will enable decarbonised hydrogen to scale up.? > > Through this commitment to the 2030 goal, hydrogen for transportation can achieve full decarbonization 15 years ahead of the SB 100 mandate of 100% carbon-free electricity by 2045. Attainment of the stated goal of 100% carbon-free hydrogen fuel by 2030 will maintain the position of hydrogen fuel cell electric drive as the lowest-carbon alternative among electric drive solutions. > The hydrogen industry is committed to helping California dramatically reduce emissions despite increasing transportation demand by providing a clean fuel that has proven itself in both on- and off-road applications and is emerging as an important alternative to diesel in marine, rail and port applications. > > > - Mark > > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: < http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181220/0efd6348/attachment.html > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181221/51e952c8/attachment.html> ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 10:47:29 -0600 (CST) From: brucedp5 <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [EVDL] waymo: clarify my points: auton EVs on NPR Fresh Air program ... Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [off t] Below is a link to a waymo newswire. The vehicle was not an EV. After that is a link to show there is plenty of news of waymo av/ai NPR is clueless about: https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1120594_self-driving-car-engineer-drove-cross-country-without-touching-steering-wheel https://www.google.com/search?q=Driverless+car+road+trip+waymo For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: http://evdl.org/archive/ {brucedp.neocities.org} -- Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 04:58:11 -0800 From: Mark Abramowitz <[email protected]> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Willie, Fuel cell vehicles are NOT off-topic (check the charter), but I put OT in there just because I thought that this particular conversation was OT - but perhaps it isn?t OT. Is there a future? Not really the subject of the post, and also a question I?m not sure how I would ever answer a question like that with a ?source?. So I?ll avoid thread-crapping my own thread. Yes, decarbonized hydrogen can absolutely include cracked water. I don?t know what the original intent of the Hydrogen Council was, but I would think that it would also include non-petroleum based natural gas. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Dec 21, 2018, at 4:33 AM, Willie via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On 12/20/18 7:49 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: >> Sorry, that last part should read ?though unintentionally? >> - Mark >> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone >>> On Dec 20, 2018, at 5:37 PM, Mark Abramowitz <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Some of you know that I?ve been an advocate for BEVs for a number of >>> decades, and of hydrogen fuel cell EVs (the ?other? electric vehicle) for a >>> bit less. > > Assuming hydrogen vehicles are off topic here as you indicate, perhaps you > can point me to information that supports your apparent belief that there is > a future for hydrogen? > > I supposed "decarbonized hydrogen" is from electrically "cracked" water > rather than from natural gas? Will any source you cite address the > efficiency and distribution problems? > > Hydrogen does seem like a very obvious dead end to me but I'm open to > additional information. I do find it intriguing that Toyota, Nikola and > others seem so willing to pour money down an apparent rat hole. Though I do > understand that Toyota's primary motivation is delay of EV progress. > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:12:32 -0600 From: "Dex's Chris" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [EVDL] 2013-2015 LEAF Battery Pack Install in a 2011-2012 LEAF Message-ID: <caoclt4kct60e3mkko_bk1vopyuf-shpkh81_bhrloa35yww...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Our project involves the installation of a 2015 donor pack into a 2011 car. Since the 2013-2015 pack, instead of one single HV connector, has 2 HV connectors on the front of the pack, one for the motor, the other for the cabin heater: 1) How was cabin heat is supplied from the pack in the 2011-2012 LEAFs as there's no connector on the front of the pack for cabin heat? 2) Please confirm that dealerships use an adapter cable that mates the 2013-2015 pack ports to the 2011-2012 vehicle (best case scenario) 3) If no adapter, is the motor HV connector identical? In other words, if installed as-is, without any mod, the net effect is loss of cabin heat. (worst case scenario). -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181221/16878027/attachment.html> ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 12:37:41 -0800 From: Gail Lucas <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [EVDL] waymo: clarify my points: auton EVs on NPR Fresh Air program ... Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Bruce, I see no connection between your links here and NPR. I have KNPR on my radio 24/7 and contribute to it monthly. I have never considered it to be clueless, rather find it quite informative and unbiased. Fresh Air is an interview program, covers lots of viewpoints of various artists, educators, politicians, writers and musicians. AFAIK it is not promoted as a news source although it may sometimes be one. Gail On 12/21/2018 8:47 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > [off t] > > Below is a link to a waymo newswire. The vehicle was not an EV. > After that is a link to show there is plenty of news of waymo av/ai NPR is > clueless about: > > https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1120594_self-driving-car-engineer-drove-cross-country-without-touching-steering-wheel > > https://www.google.com/search?q=Driverless+car+road+trip+waymo > ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 07:46:15 -0800 From: Mark Abramowitz <[email protected]> To: Willie <[email protected]> Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: Keeping hydrogen for transportation ?cleaner? (GHG emissions) than the grid Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 For those with a strong aversion to relying on fossil fuels, the use of non-petroleum gas is certainly more virtuous than using regular Nat gas. For those concerned about greenhouse gases emissions, use of non-fossil natural gas can result in a net *decrease* of GHG emissions.(if you have questions on this, the best place to look at the California Air Resources Board individual approved pathways for GHG reductions). And yes, many of us remain excited about electrolytic hydrogen using renewable energy sources, particularly since it can help solve the problems many countries are running into where wind/solar resource use needs to be curtailed. Perhaps the most exciting thing about the Hydrogen Council announcement is the breadth of company CEOs that have signed on to the commitment. - Mark Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone > On Dec 21, 2018, at 5:24 AM, Willie <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> On 12/21/18 6:58 AM, Mark Abramowitz wrote: >> Willie, >> Fuel cell vehicles are NOT off-topic (check the charter), but I put OT in >> there just because I thought that this particular conversation was OT - but >> perhaps it isn?t OT. >> Is there a future? Not really the subject of the post, and also a question >> I?m not sure how I would ever answer a question like that with a ?source?. >> So I?ll avoid thread-crapping my own thread. > > Well, you seemed to be our window to the hydrogen world. Surely "the > hydrogen people" have some real or hoped for solutions to the distribution > and efficiencies problems. Else, they would not be pursuing. At least > sincere and honest people would not be pursuing. > >> Yes, decarbonized hydrogen can absolutely include cracked water. I don?t >> know what the original intent of the Hydrogen Council was, but I would think >> that it would also include non-petroleum based natural gas. > > The concept of "non-petroleum natural gas" was foreign to me. But I now see > and guess that might be feed lot and landfill methane. I don't see how > "non-petroleum natural gas" would be more virtuous than real natural gas. Or > somehow be associated with "decarbonized hydrogen". Of course, "cracked > water" has the advantage of being free of the carbon stigma if the electric > power used has wind/PV/etc sources. > > Thanks! > ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2018 14:48:35 -0600 From: Willie <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [EVDL] waymo: clarify my points: auton EVs on NPR Fresh Air program ... Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed On 12/21/18 2:37 PM, Gail Lucas via EV wrote: > > Bruce, > > I see no connection between your links here and NPR. I have KNPR on my > radio 24/7 and contribute to it monthly. I have never considered it to > be clueless, rather find it quite informative and unbiased. "Unbiased" might mean "matches my bias". I've always considered NPR to have a horrible liberal bias. I could cite numerous examples but will refrain here. I do listen to quite a bit of NPR programming and enjoy much of it. I do hold my nose and contribute annually to our local station. ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ [email protected] For general EVDL support, see http://evdl.org/help/ http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org ------------------------------ End of EV Digest, Vol 74, Issue 37 ********************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181222/f22634a1/attachment.html> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
