> Peri Hartman > [EVDL] unfurling panels [was: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars]
> I think what would be interesting, perhaps not so practical, would be to design an EV for aerodynamcis. But, when parked, it would "unfurl" a large collection of solar panels which could be more-or-less aimed. > It would still require having a fairly large battery, so this isn't the same sort of thing as the Stella. Depending on how much wind the panels might catch, it might need stabilizers, similar to what excavators use. I can imagine all sorts of geometries. > Even on a dull Seattle december day, this might capture enough energy for the daily commute to never need plugging in. > Peri ***** I really like the Hyundai Ionic for its superb efficiency On the ABRP-site it seems like it has even lower consumption than the Model3. but the double curved shape of the roof is probably not optimal for solar cell bending.. Sunpower cells can actually bend, but only in one direction at the time! :- ) Ionic, yes very very good eff. but still, the Ionic is a bit old now, would I buy a car with a 28kWh pack in 2019? for 40 000 USD... Or go for the Kona instead? Kona is not the type of car that I need, also it consumes more energy at higher speeds, but it have a very large and modern battery pack, at the same price as the Ionic, hmm.. I just wish they did an nice upgrade to the Ionic pack very soon, to something at least similar to the Zoe 40(?)kWh pack, or the "new" 120Ah cells in the BMWi3. But for a person that have any kind of need for off-grid solar installation that produce several hundreds of watts for the full 17-20 hours summer days, and if he also like to get a huge lithium battery storage for the house for "free", +a powerful inverter to "plug in and charge up the house" using a normal Schuko 1 phase 16Amp 3.7kW 2.5mm2 cord , or use the the type 2 plug(or a 3phase redplug?) to get even higher power levels if there is a need for that, up to 11kW peak output, If that kind of needs do exists from time to time, maybe at a visit to the remote summer-house/cabin? Then I think the Sion is probably a really good idea compared to buy all that stuff exra for a permanent installation, and use it probably not so much, https://sonomotors.com/sion.html/ To me this seems like a complete off-grid installation, on wheels :- ) it is a boxy looking car, so the Aero is probably not that great.. (but the size/frontal area seems relatively small. Also the kWh/km and indicated range looks "ok") If needed, you can also just drive away with your nice mobile offgrid solar installation to a charging station, or visit some nice on-grid-friends, to get some more juice for the house, https://sonomotors.com/wp-content/uploads/Information_Sheet_Sion_EN.pdf I like the car and the concept overall, at that price-point, and solar cells is not that expensive any more, ..so why not? In the summer this car would probably do all my regular trips on "self charge" sunlight power only, so it might be some months without a need to plug it in at all.. I think that is cool :- ) Yes the same solar cells on a 300 degree or 360 tracker would perform better, but then I need to buy a much larger battery for the home, if not there for some days or weeks, So I guess it will not be "more" energy for the same amount of money. And I also need to buy a bigger charge controller. And a tracker... and install a second larger inverter at home to, for the peak loads. I also like the "open source" attitude they seems to have at sonomotors, free access to stuff like servicemanuals and online step by step videos for any local car repair shops / John ------ Original Message ------ From: "Bobby Keeland via EV" <[email protected]> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> Cc: "Bobby Keeland" <[email protected]> Sent: 22-Oct-18 6:47:55 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars (charging while parked) >My wife and I are on the waiting list for a 220 mile range Model 3. We >don't need the 310 mile range or the high performance. > >When we travel it is usually by motorhome. I've thought about towing >the EV >on a trailer that is covered with solar panels. A recharge while boon >docking would be no problem. >BobK > >On Mon, Oct 22, 2018, 8:41 AM Robert Bruninga via EV ><[email protected]> >wrote: > >>ALL EV's are predominantly charged while parked. Solar panels on EV's >>are >>not for propulsion power but for battery charging during the 8 to 16 >>hour >>solar day while parked in the sun, not just the 30 minutes the car is >>in >>use. This is for those without a dedicated charger at home. >> >>Bob >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: EV <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Alan Arrison via EV >>Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2018 7:26 PM >>To: [email protected] >>Cc: Alan Arrison <[email protected]> >>Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: The physics of slapping solar panels on cars >> >>The numbers don't add up for solar panels on automobiles, never have, >>never >>will. >> >>This has been proven time and time again. >> >>There is no way it gets even 20 miles per kWh under anything but >>perfect >>conditions and slow speeds. >> >>And the energy from the panels again is under perfect conditions. >> >>It is so light because it has almost no crash protection. >> >>Al >> >> >> >>On 10/21/2018 3:09 PM, Larry Gales via EV wrote: >> > When I look at the Stella Lux and Stella Vie, I get very different >> > results from the negative views of solar powered cars. I start with >> > the assumption that the Dutch students who have won most of the >>solar >> > car records are not actually lying. So, the specs for the 4 >>passenger >> > Stella Lux include these: >> > >> > >> > >> > Length >> > >> > 178 inches >> > >> > Width >> > >> > 69 inches >> > >> > Height >> > >> > 44 inches >> > >> > Weight >> > >> > 826 pounds >> > >> > Battery Capacity >> > >> > 15 kWh >> > >> > Motor Efficiency >> > >> > 97 percent >> > >> > Range on sunny day (Netherlands) >> > >> > 621 miles >> > >> > Range on sunny day (Australia) >> > >> > 683 miles >> > >> > Range at night (on battery) >> > >> > 403 miles >> > >> > Top Speed >> > >> > 77 mph >> > >> > >> > >> > So, if the range at night is 403 miles and the battery is 15 kWh, >>that >> > translates to 26.8 miles/kWh. Let us suppose that is under ideal >> > conditions, and that a more realistic value is 20 miles/kWh. The >> > solar PV array is 1.5 kW, so a more realistic value under real world >> > conditions is >> > 0.75 kW. In Seattle, where I live, which has about the worst solar >> > potential in the USA, the average solar intensity in July is 6.3 sun >> > hours. >> > So, (0.75 * 6.3 * 20) = 94.5 miles. If we usually travel only 40 >> > miles/day, I could easily see traveling 200 miles on accumulated >>solar >> > energy, after, say, a week of 40 miles/day travel. And given that 5 >> > months/year we average over 60% of the July values we can travel >>about >> > 60 miles/day just on stored sunlight from the car. And the 5 >> > passenger Stella Vie is just as efficient. >> > >> > On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:09 AM brucedp5 via EV <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> https://qz.com/1423288/why-dont-we-have-solar-powered-cars-physics/ >> >> The physics of why we don’t have solar-powered cars October 15, >>2018 >> >> Michael J. Coren >> >> >> >> [image >> >> >>https://cms.qz.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/image1-e1539387897807.p >> >> ng >> >> The Sono Motors Car >> >> ] >> >> >> >> The nuclear furnace at the center of solar system powers almost >> >> everything on earth. Photosynthesis, wind, and even fossil fuels >> >> (once decomposed living matter) all derive in some way from the >>star we >> >> call the Sun. >> >> >> >> So why isn’t it enough to power our cars? >> >> >> >> It’s all about energy density: how much energy falls on a surface >> >> relative to how much is consumed. We can have solar powered e-bikes >> >> that cover thousands of miles, sailboat drones that cross oceans, >> >> even ultra-light aircraft that circumnavigate the globe. What do >>they >> >> have in common? >> >> They’re >> >> all very light, slow, and consume a trickle of electrons. Solar >> >> panels generate just enough electricity to keep them moving. >> >> >> >> For anything weighing thousands of pounds, like a car, the energy >> >> equation is daunting. A few intrepid carmakers are slapping solar >> >> panels on their vehicles anyway. Few have gotten very far. The >>German >> >> startup Sono Motors is adding 330 integrated solar cells on the >>roof, >> >> sides, and rear to give its vehicle a 30-km boost out of a 250-km >> >> (155-mile) battery range. Meanwhile, Dutch startup behind >> >> LightyearOne claims its electric car will “charge itself.” Although >> >> it has yet to unveil a vehicle, potential customers can put down >> >> deposits for a €119.000 ($157,000) car promising to travel 10,000 >>to >> >> 20,000 km per year (6,200 to 12,400 miles) on its solar panels >>alone. >> >> >> >> The Sono Motors Car >> >> >> >> Will it work? Don’t bet on it, says Jeremy Michalek, a professor of >> >> mechanical engineering at Carnegie Mellon University and director >>of >> >> its Vehicle Electrification Group. >> >> >> >> Quartz asked Michalek to estimate how far the best solar panels >>could >> >> propel a typical electric car on the market. He broke down the math >> >> for us. >> >> >> >> Michalek says about 1 kilowatt (kW) of solar energy falls on a >>square >> >> meter of the Earth’s surface on a clear day. That’s all the solar >> >> energy available to collect. For a company like Sono, which says it >> >> can convert about a quarter of that energy into electricity >>(although >> >> that’s very optimistic), a full site of panels might generate >>roughly >> >> 8 kilowatt hours of energy per day (a best-case scenario with four >> >> square meters of solar panels). >> >> >> >> Michalek says that’s enough to drive a car like the comparable >>Nissan >> >> Leaf about 25 miles. But there are many reasons (clouds, poor panel >> >> positioning, dirt), this number will rarely be reached. As for >> >> LightyearOne and its claims that you’ll never need to charge your >>car >> >> in the future? The odds are tough. The maximum conversion rate for >> >> cheap silicon cells to turn sunlight into electricity is just under >> >> 33%, and more exotic materials that achieve 44% efficiency are far >> >> too expensive for mass production. Without a revolutionary >> >> breakthough in solar panel technology, cars that can recharge >> >> themselves with the sun alone remain fantastical. >> >> >> >> Does that mean putting solar panels on cars is always a bad idea? >> >> Maybe not. >> >> A sunny day can tack on enough miles to cover the average US >>commute. >> >> But Michalek says that’s an expensive way to extend the car’s >>range. >> >> Anyone with a charging outlet can get renewable energy from the >>wall >> >> for a lot less. >> >> Sign up for the Quartz Daily Brief email Stay updated about Quartz >> >> products and events. >> >> [© qz.com] >> >> >> >> >> >> + >> >> >> >> >>https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/driverless-car-hype-gives-way- >> >> e-scooter-mania-among-technorati-n919706 >> >> Driverless car hype gives way to e-scooter mania among technorati >> >> Oct. 13, 2018 Driverless car hype gives way to e-scooter mania >>among >> >> technorati ... In a matter of months, electric scooter startups >>have >> >> gone from tech oddity to global ... Millions of dollars in funding >> >> and billions of dollars in valuations have made scooters the next >>big >> >> thing since the last big thing ... >> >> >> >> >>https://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2018_28/2491731/180709-bird-sc >> >> >>ooter-san-francisco-njs-1541_0d7cd3431408077aac647d098c7ba8a7.fit-124 >> >> 0w.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: >> >> http://evdl.org/archive/ >> >> >> >> >> >> {brucedp.neocities.org} >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Sent from: >> >> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>_______________________________________________ >>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >> >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20181022/b5138008/attachment.html> >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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