I agree. The combination of workplace charging and SuperCharger-like power for road trips seems like the ideal combination. I think that is the key advantage that Tesla has right now. I also agree that utilities don't need to install the workplace chargers. With the right incentives, and demand from their employees, companies will install them. The utilities can provide incentives if they want.
Mike On August 23, 2016 9:27:41 AM MDT, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> wrote: >I'll throw in a wet towel. It is very exciting to see support for more >charging stations and, in general, I support that. But I think this >will >be the wrong technology. > >200+ mile EVs are coming and with that the next wave of (semi) early >adopters. The build out needs to support them. I strongly believe those > >people will expect to use their EVs for long road trips and be able to >charge when it's convenient for them, and not necessarily at home. Many > >will not have a place to charge at home. > >In order to support these people, we need ESVEs which can deliver >something at 100kw or better. Only Tesla is doing this today. As best >as >I can tell, the proposal is to install a mix of facilities with 253 >"fast charge stations" with power output similiar to what's available >today: around 40-50kw. While the chademo spec allows much higher power, > >this doc indicates the status quo (page 5): > >http://www.energy.ca.gov/renewables/tracking_progress/documents/electric_vehicle.pdf > >For level 2 stations, why should the utility be installing them? Such >facilities would most likely be located at businesses and other >public-accessible places where people are willing to spend an hour or >more waiting for a charge. Wouldn't it be better to provide a >government >based incentive for the businesses to install them? > >Maybe I'm completely missing something. Speak up :) > >Peri > >------ Original Message ------ >From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: 23-Aug-16 1:43:01 AM >Subject: [EVDL] turn sez utility PG&E's EV charging station plan would >co$t all ratepayers > >> >> >>% What turn sez below may sound good for the consumer, but IMO one >>needs to >>take turn.org with (a ton of) salt, because not only was turn against >>the >>CARB mandate and EVs in general back in the 1990's-on, their staff >does >>not >>speak with one voice, nor is it stated where turn gets its funding. >>Clearly >>they are speaking for who is funding them (today). % >> >>'Utilities can afford to dream big on their customers’ dime' >> >>http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/op-ed/soapbox/article96490842.html >>PG&E’s EV charging station plan would cost all ratepayers >>AUGUST 18, 2016 [Elise Torres is an energy attorney at The Utility >>Reform >>Network (TURN). etorres @turn.org. Eric Borden is an energy analyst at > >>TURN, >>a nonprofit that represents California consumers. eborden @turn.org] >> >>In California, cars are as ubiquitous as sunshine. That’s one reason >>more >>than one-third of the emissions in our state’s air come from the >>transportation sector. So there’s no doubt we need to get gas-guzzling > >>cars >>off the road. >> >>One attractive solution is the electric vehicle. Powered by an >electric >>battery that has to be charged periodically, these vehicles represent >a >>potential shift toward a cleaner, greener energy future. >> >>However, PG&E’s plan to take advantage of the interest in EVs and >>expand its >>business to include EV charging stations isn’t about a cleaner, >greener >>future. It’s about using customers’ money to muscle its way into the >>new >>market from its advantageous position as a monopoly with a guaranteed >>income >>and profit stream: us. >> >>PG&E proposes a whopping 7,600 charging stations for electric >vehicles, >>without any data or analysis to support that there is a need for them. >>Customers, whether they own an EV or not, would pay the $160 >>million-plus in >>estimated project costs. >> >>Utilities can afford to dream big on their customers’ dime. But after >>winning limits on overly expensive charging experiments in Southern >>California, The Utility Reform Network knows PG&E can limit the risk >to >>customers by starting smaller. That will give PG&E and regulators a >>chance >>to see if PG&E can be more successful in this new venture than in some >>previous ones. >> >>Not only should PG&E’s program be smaller, it should plan for the >>future. >>For example, declining battery prices and improved technology will >lead >>to >>increased EV range (miles per full battery charge) in coming years. >>This >>makes it even more likely that consumers will primarily charge their >>vehicles at home, not in the mostly public and workplace locations >P&GE >>is >>proposing. There is already a robust private market for workplace and >>public >>charging, one that is seriously threatened by PG&E’s proposal. >> >>In addition, PG&E’s proposal does nothing to address the massive >>barriers to >>EV adoption outside of the availability of charging stations. Access >to >>public charging infrastructure is not a magic wand that will solve >>other >>barriers to consumer adoption of electric vehicles, which include the >>high >>purchase price of EVs and the impact of low gas prices. >> >>PG&E’s stated commitment to provide charging stations to low-income >>communities sounds good in theory. But when TURN investigated that >>claim, we >>found the locations PG&E has targeted as “disadvantaged” include the >>Google >>and LinkedIn campuses, Twitter’s headquarters and the Transamerica >>Building >>– wealthy workplaces that do not need ratepayer subsidy to install >>charging >>stations. >> >>TURN instead urges that infrastructure be targeted to apartment >>buildings in >>low-income communities, and consumers that qualify for the CARE >program >>(for >>low-income households in California) should receive an upfront rebate >>from >>existing low-carbon credit funds if they purchase or lease an EV. >> >>California is truly a world leader when it comes to transforming its >>energy >>sector and achieving ambitious greenhouse gas reductions. But our >>progress >>will be impeded, at a cost to the environment and utility ratepayers, >>if >>wasteful and bloated utility programs are approved in lieu of smart, >>cost-effective solutions. >> >>Regulators should not let the attraction of EVs blind them to the >>wasteful >>and self-serving nature of PG&E’s proposal. Proposals claiming to >>“save” the >>environment should actually help decrease state emissions, not just >add >>to >>utility bottom lines. >>[© sacbee.com] >>... >>http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/take+with+a+grain+of+salt >>Grain of salt >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_of_salt >>... >>http://www.turn.org/tag/electric-vehicles/ >>The Utility Reform Network >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TURN_(The_Utility_Reform_Network) >>http://charityreports.bbb.org//oakland/human-services/utility-reform-network-in-43558 >>http://consumerfdn.org/about-us/grantees/the-utility-reform-network-turn/ >>... >>https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/documents/461232896/VGI%20FD.PDF?nid=17366 >>'arguments of TURN against SDG&E EVSE program' >> >> >> >> >>For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: >>http://evdl.org/evln/ >> >> >>{brucedp.0catch.com} >> >>-- >>View this message in context: >>http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/turn-sez-utility-PG-E-s-EV-charging-station-plan-would-co-t-all-ratepayers-tp4683435.html >>Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at > >>Nabble.com. >>_______________________________________________ >>UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >>Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >>(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> > >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
