The grid will actually need less spinning reserves with solar than they have now. When we think solar is "variable" then we are ignoring the fact that when a coal or nuke or gas plant drops off line due to any number of *routine* causes, the drop on the grid woiuld be catastrophic. Hence, the grid already maintains spinning reserves at least equal to their biggest single plant at any time.
Solar *never* goes down like that. Solar is quite predictable and on partly cloudy days the clouds are not everywhere at once. So the spinning reserve argument does not hold water when you compare the backup needed for a centralized plant compared to distributed solar. Its just obfuscation. Bob On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 12:37 PM, Peri Hartman <[email protected]> wrote: > Robert, > > You're probably right on the peak power rates. But I think the power > companies have a legitimate concern. That doesn't justify stonewalling. > > The issue I see is what happens when solar generation is insufficient. If > residents are installing solar panels but no backup supply, then they are > relying on the grid to generate power when they cannot. That means the > utilities have to build full capacity power generation regardless if it > gets used regularly or hardly at all. > > Currently, they use much of their capacity all the time and, thus, can > recoup their investment over a large degree of usage. Alternatively, if > they have to build the same capacity and recoup their investment just > during occasional peak usage, I suspect their peak rates will need to be a > lot higher than they currently are. > > That said, such an arrangement, with mitigation, might not be so bad. It > would encourage people to install backup storage and reduce the utility's > need to build out. > > Peri > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Robert Bruninga via EV" <[email protected]> > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> > Sent: 13-Aug-16 9:26:59 AM > Subject: [EVDL] Solar haves and have nots > > The argument that solar people (many with EV's) are getting an unfair good >> deal at the expense of other rate payers is hogwash, yet the fossil fuel >> industry lobbyists and big money are promoting it to fight solar. >> >> I just had an emiphany... >> >> We all know that home solar is actually a big win to the utilities since >> they are getting our solar power at the standard 10 cent rate when in fat, >> they are paying 5 to ten times that during the daily peak to meet peak >> demand. And the proof is in every electric bill in Maryland. All >> customers have smart meters, and the utility says THEY WILL PAY EVERYONE >> $1.50 PER KWH for every KWH THAT THEY DO NOT USE ON THESE PEAK SOLAR DAYS. >> This proves they are paying more than $1.50 per kWh on those days... >> >> So do not be fed the BS from the utilities and fossil fuel industry that >> solar is "costing them money" when in fact they are skimming off the >> profits and taking them straight to the bank. >> >> But solar customers understand that this net profit to the utilities for >> their power is what they give up in order to have the grid as their >> storage >> system. So it is a win-win for both (and a lose-lose for the fossil fuel >> industry truing to burn every last drop. >> >> HERE IS MY EPIPHANY: >> >> In the past, it was the Fossil fuel people and their dirty PEAKING plants >> that were getting paid ten to twenty times the normal rate during PEAK >> solar days, and yet the utilty now is getting the same peak power from >> solar still at the net rate of ten cents. No wonder they feel threatened. >> Notice it is not the other rate payers losing money it is the dirty fossil >> fuel peak generator suppliers that see the ten-to-1 loss in their dirty >> peakers. And that is exactly as it should be. We need them and their >> dirty power off the grid. The sooner the better. >> >> Sure we need peaking plants, But we do not need to cry over them when >> solar can provide power to the grid at the same time for under 10% of >> their >> dirty costs. So it is not the other rate payers that are complaining, it >> is the dirty fossil fuel peaking plans using the good name of "other rate >> payers" to divide and conquer us. >> >> Bob Bruninga, WB4APR >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/ >> 20160813/10f2361b/attachment.htm> >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group >> /NEDRA) >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160813/312526e3/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
