Amen. But some like get some mileage overseas. This is an ICE example, I bought a Scion xB early on. It was not popular, a new marquee, new sales plan (no haggle was new then), dealer did not care, etc. I bought because the drive train had been in Yaris for a decade in Europe, and lightly used but present in the Echo. I little risky, but it has turned out very well.
The iMiEV, and Fiat 500e interest me. On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Chris Tromley via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > The problem with compliance cars is they are made by companies that don't > want to make them. If I'm going to buy a car, I'll only buy from a company > whose heart is in it - not from a company that feels their arm is being > twisted, and making them only to gain access to a market. Their priorities > are all wrong, and not in my best interest. > > Chris > On May 6, 2015 1:09 PM, "Mark Abramowitz via EV" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Presumably more choices will mean more cars. One size never fits all. > > > > My guess is that most ZEV owners (and many ICE owners) have a 2nd vehicle > > that is not a ZEV unless their lifestyle, tastes and habits match their > ZEV > > perfectly. > > > > Compliance cars are frequently no less perfect for someone's needs than a > > "real" car (as you refer to it). But frankly, *all* ZEVs are compliance > > cars when it comes down to it. No ZEV mandate = No ZEVs. It took a lot of > > work by many of us (including my lawsuit) to get any on the road. > > > > The only advantage of less ZEVs in Washington would be if it meant that, > > due to limited production, more would be available for sale in > California, > > where the air quality makes it sorely needed. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On May 6, 2015, at 8:48 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > That's assuming that more choices == more sales. I don't know if > that's > > true or not for this market. There are plenty of EVs for sale in Wash. > and > > I certainly want to see their sales increase. Ideally speaking, I'd > rather > > see "real" cars rather than "compliance" cars. Just an emotional > response. > > > > > > Peri > > > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > > > From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" <[email protected]> > > > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> > > > Sent: 06-May-15 7:31:55 AM > > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: WA Loves Electric Cars, But Gets Very Few > > > > > >> I don't get this. > > >> > > >> Why on earth would anyone want any less ZEVs out there, no matter why > > they are there? > > >> > > >> We need as many ZEVs out there as we can get, as quickly as possible. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Sent from my iPhone > > >> > > >>> On May 6, 2015, at 6:40 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I was wondering about this. Glad you found the article, Bruce. > > >>> > > >>> Maybe it's just as well not to have a bunch of compliance cars on the > > market, here. The "real" ones will come along as the EV market and > > technology progresses. > > >>> > > >>> Peri > > >>> > > >>> ------ Original Message ------ > > >>> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[email protected]> > > >>> To: [email protected] > > >>> Sent: 06-May-15 12:15:30 AM > > >>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: WA Loves Electric Cars, But Gets Very Few > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098052_washington-state-loves-electric-cars-but-gets-very-few-heres-why > > >>>> Washington State Loves Electric Cars, But Gets Very Few: Here's Why > > >>>> By Stephen Edelstein Apr 29, 2015 ht2 Brian Henderson > > >>>> > > >>>> [images > > >>>> > > > http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2014-chevrolet-spark-ev_100433719_m.jpg > > >>>> 2014 Chevrolet Spark EV > > >>>> > > >>>> > http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2014-fiat-500_100435224_m.jpg > > >>>> 2014 Fiat 500e EV > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2015-volkswagen-e-golf-limited-edition_100503450_m.jpg > > >>>> 2015 Volkswagen e-Golf Limited Edition EV > > >>>> > > >>>> > > http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2015-kia-soul-ev_100456106_m.jpg > > >>>> 2015 Kia Soul EV > > >>>> ] > > >>>> > > >>>> When it comes to states friendly to electric cars, Washington is > > pretty > > >>>> close to the top. > > >>>> > > >>>> It has one of the highest percentages of registered plug-in electric > > cars in > > >>>> That's assuming that more choices == more sales. I don't know if > > that's > > > true or not for this market. There are plenty of EVs for sale in Wash. > > and I certainly want to see their sales increase. Ideally speaking, I'd > > rather see "real" cars rather than "compliance" cars. Just an emotional > > response. > > > > > > Peri > > > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > > > From: "Mark Abramowitz via EV" <[email protected]> > > > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> > > > Sent: 06-May-15 7:31:55 AM > > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: WA Loves Electric Cars, But Gets Very Few > > > > > >> I don't get this. > > >> > > >> Why on earth would anyone want any less ZEVs out there, no matter why > > they are there? > > >> > > >> We need as many ZEVs out there as we can get, as quickly as possible. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Sent from my iPhone > > >> > > >>> On May 6, 2015, at 6:40 AM, Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> I was wondering about this. Glad you found the article, Bruce. > > >>> > > >>> Maybe it's just as well not to have a bunch of compliance cars on the > > market, here. The "real" ones will come along as the EV market and > > technology progresses. > > >>> > > >>> Peri > > >>> > > >>> ------ Original Message ------ > > >>> From: "brucedp5 via EV" <[email protected]> > > >>> To: [email protected] > > >>> Sent: 06-May-15 12:15:30 AM > > >>> Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: WA Loves Electric Cars, But Gets Very Few > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098052_washington-state-loves-electric-cars-but-gets-very-few-heres-why > > >>>> Washington State Loves Electric Cars, But Gets Very Few: Here's Why > > >>>> By Stephen Edelstein Apr 29, 2015 ht2 Brian Henderson > > >>>> > > >>>> [images > > >>>> > > > http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2014-chevrolet-spark-ev_100433719_m.jpg > > >>>> 2014 Chevrolet Spark EV > > >>>> > > >>>> > http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2014-fiat-500_100435224_m.jpg > > >>>> 2014 Fiat 500e EV > > >>>> > > >>>> > > > http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2015-volkswagen-e-golf-limited-edition_100503450_m.jpg > > >>>> 2015 Volkswagen e-Golf Limited Edition EV > > >>>> > > >>>> > > http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/2015-kia-soul-ev_100456106_m.jpg > > >>>> 2015 Kia Soul EV > > >>>> ] > > >>>> > > >>>> When it comes to states friendly to electric cars, Washington is > > pretty > > >>>> close to the top. > > >>>> > > >>>> It has one of the highest percentages of registered plug-in electric > > cars in > > >>>> the country, according to the U.S. Energy Information > Administration. > > >>>> > > >>>> Electric cars get a sales-tax exemption in Washington, and access to > > >>>> charging infrastructure that's fed mostly from wind and hydro power. > > >>>> > > >>>> Yet Washington buyers are stuck with the same limited selection of > > models as > > >>>> in states with far less generous policies or eager buyers. > > >>>> > > >>>> Certain models of battery-electric car--including the BMW i3, Ford > > Focus > > >>>> Electric, Mitsubishi i-MiEV, Nissan Leaf, and Tesla Model S--are > > available > > >>>> in Washington. > > >>>> > > >>>> But many other low-volume models, from the Chevrolet Spark EV to the > > >>>> Volkswagen e-Golf, aren't. > > >>>> > > >>>> What gives? > > >>>> As it turns out, while Washington adopted California's emissions > > standard, > > >>>> it failed to include that state's zero-emission vehicle mandate. > > >>>> > > >>>> That means there's no incentive for manufacturers to sell more > > electric cars > > >>>> in Washington state, explains a recent Seattle Times blog post. > > >>>> > > >>>> The mandate requires carmakers to sell a certain percentage of > > zero-emission > > >>>> vehicles in California. > > >>>> > > >>>> That led to those manufacturers developing low-volume models > > specifically > > >>>> for the purpose of meeting that state's mandate. > > >>>> > > >>>> These "compliance cars" include the Spark EV, Fiat 500e [EV], and > the > > >>>> recently-discontinued Honda Fit EV and Toyota RAV4 EV, among others. > > >>>> > > >>>> Washington doesn't get these cars, nor does it get certain > low-volume > > models > > >>>> like the Mercedes-Benz B-Class Electric Drive and Volkswagen e-Golf. > > >>>> > > >>>> And without regulatory strong-arming, many carmakers don't want to > > invest in > > >>>> expanded distribution of electric cars. > > >>>> > > >>>> They often want to limit the money they spend to develop an electric > > model > > >>>> that is only intended to sell in small numbers, and restrict > > distribution to > > >>>> states where sales count toward the requirements of the ZEV mandate. > > >>>> > > >>>> "I hope you don't buy it," Fiat Chrysler Automobiles CEO Sergio > > Marchionne > > >>>> infamously said of the 500e, "every time I sell one it costs me > > $14,000." > > >>>> > > >>>> The Fiat and the Chevy Spark EV are both available in neighboring > > Oregon, > > >>>> and some Washington residents have reportedly crossed the border to > > buy > > >>>> examples of those models. > > >>>> > > >>>> However, local servicing can be difficult, as dealers that don't > sell > > the > > >>>> electric variants lack the equipment and training to work on them. > > >>>> > > >>>> Washington buyers will get at least one more electric-car option in > a > > few > > >>>> months, though. > > >>>> > > >>>> The state is one of five that will get the Kia Soul EV, beginning in > > June. > > >>>> > > >>>> The Soul EV is currently sold only in California, but Kia decided to > > expand > > >>>> to Washington, Georgia, Texas, Oregon, and Hawaii in response to > > strong > > >>>> consumer interest. > > >>>> [© greencarreports.com] > > >>>> ... > > >>>> > > > http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1095708_washington-state-to-give-electric-cars-tax-breaks-carpool-lane-access > > >>>> Washington State To Give Electric Cars Tax Breaks, Carpool-Lane > > Access? (Dec > > >>>> 2014) > > >>>> ... > > >>>> > > > http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1091059_compliance-car-update-which-electric-cars-are-loss-leaders > > >>>> Compliance Car Update: Which Electric Cars Are Loss Leaders? (Mar > > 2014) > > >>>> ... > > >>>> > > > http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097563_kia-soul-ev-to-go-on-sale-in-five-more-states-by-this-june > > >>>> Kia Soul EV To Go On Sale In Five More States By This June > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> For EVLN posts use: > > >>>> http://evdl.org/evln/ > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> {brucedp.150m.com} > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> -- > > >>>> View this message in context: > > > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-WA-Loves-Electric-Cars-But-Gets-Very-Few-tp4675373.html > > >>>> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive > > at Nabble.com. > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > >>>> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > >>> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150506/0f7f9c66/attachment.htm > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell [email protected] <[email protected]> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150506/face332f/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
