[2nd try - something trashed my first attempt] [ref http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Time-for-battery-change-tp4674585.html From: Roger Daisley Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 After five years in my '86 VW Cabbie, my 96v flooded pack is ready for replacement. I plan on adding two more batteries under the back seat floor, using the Electro-Automotive kit, boosting to 108v.
My question to this group is: Should I be considering Lithium, or should I wait for the next battery replacement cycle? I am thinking the Lithium pack will be around $7000. Is this about right? ] Roger, you did not state what your EV-driving needs/goals were, nor more about your EV. I did some research to find out: http://www.evalbum.com/1313 1986 Volkswagen Cabriolet “ElectricJet” "I'd also "rather not" spend the required $4,000" [on li-ion] It states a 40 mile range and does 25 miles typically (that explains how your pack lasted so long; you did not use it that much and now that it is tired, its range can be reduced to ~25 miles and still works for you. But if you make a pack voltage change, you will have-to change your WA lic-plate from "96 volt" & your 96-volt.com web site URL. (from 96-volt.com ) "I'm watching [lithium-ion] carefully and might consider it, if the price is right. Other than being able to extend the vehicle range an amount farther than I usually drive and allow me to spin the wheels and beat most cars to the first stop-light, I really can get along with my faithful non-BMS lead-acid batteries." In a couple of previous evdl posts: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Costco-GC-battery-rating-tp4669087.html Apr 21, 2014 http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Adding-new-batteries-to-an-older-pack-tp3673447p3673546.html Jul 17, 2011 I get a picture that your EV fits your needs well. Others have commented about upgrading to a Li-ion pack. But I will focus on the other side of the coin: you stay spending-conservatively and keep your previous frugal-wisdom of using PbSO4, but consider other PbSO4 options. Looking at what public EVSE is in your south-east corner of WA http://www.afdc.energy.gov/locator/stations/results?utf8=?&location=99164&filtered=true&fuel=ELEC there isn't much. So, your less expensive pfc-20 model charger likely fits your EV-charging needs. It slow, but that is OK for over-night or all-day at work. You had mentioned in your post that you were thinking of adding a battery box under a seat. Others have reported having problems with Electro-Automotive. So, I found there are many other less-expensive battery boxes to chose from: https://www.google.com/#q=battery+box&tbm=shop A San Jose EAA member used similar plastic battery boxes in his 120VDC Porsche 914 EV for years with success. Your EValbum site mentions Interstate US125 batteries, but Interstate does not offer that model, US Batteries does. On your 96-volt web site you mention US125's, so I will assume you are using US Batteries. -It would be good to tell us why you thought about bumping your 96V pack up to 108V. Is it to gain range, or performance, or both? -Also it would be good to know which 1231C controller model you actually have so that we would know the maximum pack voltage it can handle, see: http://evalbum.com/curtis US 125 XC 67lb 140min@75A Your 96V US125 pack weighs (16 x 67lbs= ) 1072lbs Your 96V pack has (2.33*75*6*16= ) 16.776kWh You mentioned adding two more batteries to make a 108V pack. An 18 67lb US125 pack would weigh (18 x 67lbs= ) 1206lbs The 108V pack would have (2.33*75*6*18= ) 18.900kWh A gain of ~2kWhs and 134lbs You could bump your pack up to 120V without a large pack-weight increase by switching to a lighter 6V traction/golf battery model. Though those lighter 6V battery model have less energy capacity, there will be more of them= ~same or better range with more performance/pep. This idea of more batteries but using a lighter battery model to keep the pack weight about the same is what Kitty Rodden did to her Porsche EV that she raced, see: http://web.stanford.edu/dept/SUL/library/extra4/sloan/EVonline/evaosc/9406/page4.htm Kitty Rodden in her Porsche 914 ... switched ... to 20 T105 6 volt batteries to handle her longer commute ... In the Trojan Battery Presentation she made to EAA Chapters: http://brucedp.150m.com/evbatt.html She mentioned that the 6V traction/golf battery models that had the same physical dimensions as a T105 did have more energy than the T105, but at a price of being acid-electrolyte starved. The more those models weighed, with the same amount of electrolyte available did provide more energy (measured in minutes). But their cycle life was reduced, and their performance got mushy with repeated hard accelerations. I experienced this first-hand, as I had changed my S-10 Blazer EV's pack voltage from 120VDC to 132VDC, and tried different model batteries. The T-145 pack did give the most energy ( = range), but it was much heavier, and made my EV more of a lead-sled. It worked best for me if I got up to highway speed, and stayed at a constant 55mph. When I used a US125 pack at the same pack voltage, I did have less range, but better cycle-life, and less acceleration mushy-ness after several hard accelerations. The following sites show the US Battery models: http://www.powerstridebattery.com/usbattery.html http://usbattery.ca/golf-cart-batteries.php (click specifications) Different configurations compared: 24 US1800 56lb 107min@75A batteries weighs: 1416lbs The 144V pack would have (1.783*75*6*24= ) 19.256kWh A gain of ~2.48kWh and 344lbs 20 US2000 59lb 114min@75A batteries weighs: 1180lbs The 120V pack would have (1.9*75*6*20= ) 17.100kWh A gain of ~.324kWh and 108lbs 18 US125 67lb 140min@75A batteries weighs: 1206lbs The 108V pack would have (2.33*75*6*18= ) 18.900kWh A gain of ~2kWhs and 134lbs IMO conclusions: The 24 US1800 144V pack would have more range, acceleration, & cycle life than the 18 US125 108V pack. The 20 US2000 120V pack would have more acceleration and cycle life than the 18 US125 108V pack, but about the same range. Because more of certain model batteries are sold to golf courses, the price per battery of some model could cost less than US125s, and be easier to source (in a pinch replace a US1800 with another brand's equivalent model). I have had good experience with US Batteries, better with Trojan but they cost more and my local Trojan dealer is awful (the US Battery dealer is good). But for your area, Spokane WA offers battery distributors for you to explore (in order of good to less): http://usbattery.com/info-center/u-s-dealers/ Battery Systems 601 N Napa Spokane WA 99202 http://corporate.interstatebatteries.com/www/distributors/eastern_washington/default.asp Ron and Mike Hartel 3014 N. Flora Rd. Ste 3A Spokane Valley, WA http://www.thecityofspokane.com/batteries/ Exide Technologies 9708 E Montgomery Ave Ste D Spokane Valley, WA http://www.exide.com/Media/files/Downloads/TransAmer/Transportation%20Americas%20Brochures%20for%20Download/Exide%20Golf%20Cart%20Trade%20Sheet.pdf {Request: check my math, give corrections, opinions, +} For EVLN posts use: http://evdl.org/evln/ http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=413529&query=subject%3Aevln+NOT+subject%3Are&days=0&sort=date {brucedp.150m.com} -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Time-for-battery-change-tp4674585p4674605.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
