Appology: This is EVDL, but EV's do not fulfill their full promise until they run on renewable energy. Most of our local EV club members generate their EV fuel from their own solar. So this discussion is pertinent.
And I am seeing so much misunderstanding about solar, that I have to comment. Its not so much the utilities, but the deep-pocket misinformation campaigns funded by oil and established greed that stirs up the rhetoric that solar self-producers getting their own free electricity are driving up costs on everyone else. Which of course is mostly balderdash, but gives the masses what they politically want to hear. In our area, (progressive deregulated utilities) we have been paying a separate 10 cents per kWh for electricity and 4 cents per kWh for "distribution". Then 28% of my bill could be considered the DISTRIUTION company's due for maintaining the grid. But then the GENERATION company is making a NET PROFIT on my electricity, since they sell it immediately to my neighbor at 10% of what they have to pay for peak summer grid rates. SO they make a net profit. I see their problem in this case. The generation side of the house makes money as much as 10 to 1 off my generated power and the distribution side gets nothing. So these things need to come to balance. And since the net benefit to reduced generation is greater than the net cost of distribution, that is why most states fully support NET metering as a compromise with no added fees. In MOST states, however, where the GENERATION and DISTRIBUTION are the same company, then how the customer is charged does not matter. It is a net win for the Utility. Hence, net metering and no added "fee's" for going solar is better off. But nothing wins elections better than convincing the masses that Renewbles make their costs go up. When the opposite is true. Bob, WB4aPR -----Original Message----- From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Ross via EV Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 11:36 AM To: Mark Abramowitz; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] OT: batteries for solar PV off-grid (cost 10, 000 times more) I can imagine - if the utilities make grid connections to solar a bad idea, ten I divide my house into two systems. On that is grid tied and running for example, the refrigerator and lights. Take other things off grid - the garage, well pump, water heater, future car charging, the mostly unused propane furnace and AC.. Not sure the mix but, get the power from PV and store it, but not so I have to worry about storing for really long dark and rainy times. Then pay minimally for grid use. If I need to, I drag an extension cord to the fridge from the solar side when the grid is out. No safety problems back powering the grid like that. Or if I need to run the well pump after a dark time, switch it over to grid. If it does make sense, look for someone marketing a clean way to do this sort of thing. On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > I have to disagree. > > Ask him on a day where his panels are producing more than he can use > what extra value he is getting from them. Then ask him on a day where > he is not getting enough from the panels how much it would have been > worth to have batteries. > > If you are taking yourself off grid, not only do the batteries (or > other energy storage method) produce value, but may even be essential. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Dec 23, 2014, at 6:48 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV > <[email protected]> > wrote: > > >> A 20-year T-bill right now is only paying about 2.5%... > >> Even if it takes 20 years to pay off the battery system... > > > > Batteries are not a source of energy. They produce nothing. Solar > panels > > do. Far better to spend X dollars available for more solar panels > > which pay off themselves in about 3 years and use the nearly free > > storage in > the > > grid. > > > > Self-storage (if you have access to the grid) consumes $2 out of > > every $3 invested in Solar with zero benefit other than about 4 > > hours of backup electricity a year (around here with a 99.96% > > reliable grid). That's spending several thousands of dollars for > > about 60 cents worth of electricity. > > > > If you don't have the grid, then sure, on-site storage is required. > > > > Oh, my zero-usage electric bill is an $8 fixed rate "meter" fee per > > month, or $100 a year. That is renting a 10,000 kWh storage system > > (the grid). Or about 100 kWh per dollar. Compare that with the > > 0.01 kWh per dollar for batteries. > > > > A 10,000 times better deal if there ever was one. > > > > Bob, WB4APR > > _______________________________________________ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, "The summer day." To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk [email protected] <[email protected]> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20141223/7a139f a0/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
