----- Original Message -----
From:Peri Hartman via EV
To:Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] PNAS report cites study that EV's pollute more
than gascars.
Wow, that's an incredible improvement for coal plants. I haven't
read
much about coal genereation; what is this type of plant called and why
aren't we hearing more about this? I'd prefer to see coal generation
go
away entirely but this type of plant seems much better than the
standard. It certainly improves the emissions of EVs using coal
generated electricty!
Peri
------ Original Message ------
From: "Roland via EV" <[email protected]>
To: "Danny Ames" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle
Discussion
List" <[email protected]>; "Sfeva" <[email protected]>
Sent: 21-Dec-14 8:21:41 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] PNAS report cites study that EV's pollute more
than
gas cars.
>
>As more coal plants are converted to 0% direct air pollution, then
this
>will be no problem. We have one coal generating plant about 460 miles
>east of us that is in North Dakota. It has been converted to a 0%
>direct air pollution. There is no main stack that releases CO2 and/or
>other compounds in the air.
>
>
>
>Also there is no train and trucks that deliver the coal to the coal
>plant. The large mining equipment only uses electric power that comes
>from this coal plant. The coal is deliver by large electric drive
>conveyers that are miles long.
>
>
>
>The coal is deliver to a coal processor where it is reduce to a fine
>dust that is blown in from the bottom and at the top of the coal
plant.
>As the coal combines together in the middle of the stack, it is
>ignited. The exhaust comes out of the side of the stack and goes down
>to generators that produce the electricity.
>
>
>
>The exhaust exits out of the generator that goes to processor plant
to
>separate the compounds to be sold to manufacturers. The CO2 is
deliver
>to the oil fields in North Dakota and Canada, where it is injected
into
>the oil formations which increases the specific gravity of the oil to
>above 25% which it then can be pipe directly to oil refineries with
out
>pre-processing to get it to the specific gravity that is needed to
pump
>into a oil pipe line.
>
>
>
>We have one pipe line that comes from Canada that goes to Great
Falls,
>Montana to a converted refinery that processes this oil. We sneak
that
>one in before it got delay like the Tar Sand oil pipe line. Note,
they
>do not pipe TAR SAND oil which is the asphalt base of this oil. It is
>pre-refine to get it to a certain specific gravity, so it can be pump
>into a pipe line and becomes the same specific gravity as the oils in
>the U.S.
>
>
>
>I use about 2.5 gallons of this oil products in my EV, which is 12
gts
>for the transmission, 6 gts for the differential, 5 qts for the
>hydraulic pumps for the power steering and power brakes. Then there
is
>the greases for all the bearings.
>
>
>
>I get the electricity from the indirect power of the sun and gravity.
>Water rising from the oceans, falling back down through hydro dams of
>which we have five here in Great Falls. One has just been converted
>with power houses off the river instead of the standard dam type.
>
>
>
>Roland
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>From: Danny Ames via EV<mailto:[email protected]>
>
>To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]> ;
>Sfeva<mailto:[email protected]>
>
>Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2014 12:36 AM
>
>Subject: [EVDL] PNAS report cites study that EV's pollute more than
gas
>cars.
>
>
>
>Report is titled: Life cycle air quality impacts of conventional
>andalternative light-duty transportation in theUnited States
>
>It seems the main stream press has taken this to task citing the PNAS
>report that EV's cars can pollute more than gas cars.
>
>Thus making the case for EVs more difficult to defend. What I'm not
>sure is the report did not take into consideration I believe is the
>amount of electricity to make the fuel. This single fact I think
would
>significantly alter the report to favor EV cars over gas.
>
>Of course their many of other reasons to drive EV's over ICE gas
cars.
>
>
>Some major news outlets and even my local news station KPIX TV
started
>citing a new report
>http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/12/10/1406853111.full.pdf#page=1&view=FitH<http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2014/12/10/1406853111.full.pdf#page=1&view=FitH>
>from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. That EV's
>pollute more than gas cars when you take in the energy to manufacture
>the EV and batteries. What I could not find in the report so far is
>citing the amount of energy it takes to make 1 gallon of gas. As
cited
>here
>http://gatewayev.org/how-much-electricity-is-used-refine-a-gallon-of-gasoline<http://gatewayev.org/how-much-electricity-is-used-refine-a-gallon-of-gasoline>
>it takes 6KW for 1 gallon of fuel.
>Danny Ames
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