I am just starting to read about microbial electrolysis. it is interesting - make H2 from #2 poo and water. I have no idea if it can scale to the sort of needs of transportation. It is even exothermic so it could generate some sort of thermal energy as a byproduct.
It is still not going to be as efficient as PV to batteries, but it has merit on the surface - what better thing to do with waste water? Of course once you have H2 you have to confront the inefficiency of fuel cells to make power (maybe 40% currently for static industrial power generation and less for a mobile application). Straight electrolysis is a bad idea, a non-starter There is a serious paper linked here: https://www.google.com/search?q=microbial+electrolysis+cell+review&rlz=1C1CHFX_enUS481US481&oq=MICROBIAL+ELECTROLYSIS+CELL&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.4724j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8 On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 9:33 PM, Cor van de Water via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > All data I have seen till now shows that emissions go up with the > indroduction of H2, due to the low efficiency well-to-wheels of creating > H2. > So, it is considered not just a very difficult energy carrier, but also > inefficient, besides being very costly in roll out. > If you have data to the contrary, I am interested in vetting it (since > it is easy to mislead with cherry-picked info). My mind is open, I tend > to decide > based on data. Fan-boy? Not so much. > Got a link for that GREET model? > > Cor van de Water > Chief Scientist > Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com > Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.info > Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Abramowitz [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:27 PM > To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla might Supercharge EVs to regain 400mi in 15min > for7 credits > > You are horribly mistaken if you believe that FCEVs increase current > emissions of either criteria or GHGs. Again, check the results from the > GREET model. > > Every responsible agency that I work with locally believe that you > CANNOT meet public health standards or GHG goals without both BEVs and > FCEVs. > > We need a 60%+ decrease in NOx emissions to meet current standards, > which data indicates are inadequate, and we expect will be tightened > further. > > In a short time, most purchased autos will need to be ZEVs. That means > that people like Peri, who has identified range issues as necessitating > his own ICE in addition to a BEV, will need to forget the ICE. For some, > that will mean BEVs, for some FCEVs, for some hybrids, and (IMO), > combinations of those as technology progresses. > > We need ZEVs of all flavors. > > Sorry for your pain, but it's all self-induced as well as hindering > efforts of those that know what they're doing. The fanboy stuff isn't > productive for those of us doing real work. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jul 28, 2014, at 5:30 PM, Cor van de Water via EV > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Mark, > > If I am mistaken and you do have an interest in the environment, > > then your words and your actions are in conflict. > > The fact that you are not just promoting Hydrogen but even lobby to > > get legislation that makes it a requirement and the environment be > > damned by the associated increase in CO2 output, makes this all the > > more painful. > > > > Regards, > > > > Cor van de Water > > Chief Scientist > > Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com > > Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.info > > Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mark Abramowitz [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 8:23 AM > > To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla might Supercharge EVs to regain 400mi in > 15min > > for7 credits > > > > Thank you for falsely stating stating my interest and what I care > about. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >>> On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:05 AM, Cor van de Water via EV > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Bill, > >> > >> Mark has no interest whether it is simpler to use Hydrogen or not. > >> He even does not care that the use of Hydrogen will increase the > > amount > >> of CO2 being burned (so, it is a disaster for the environment). > >> He is promoting Hydrogen - that is all. Look up his profile and you > > will > >> understand. > >> > >> I urge all members of this forum to once again adhere to the earlier > >> decision to avoid Hydrogen as a topic, because it is.... explosive. > >> > >> Cor van de Water > >> Chief Scientist > >> Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com > >> Email: [email protected] Private: http://www.cvandewater.info > >> Skype: cor_van_de_water Tel: +1 408 383 7626 > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bill > Woodcock > >> via EV > >> Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2014 10:58 AM > >> To: Mark Abramowitz > >> Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List > >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Tesla might Supercharge EVs to regain 400mi in > > 15min > >> for7 credits > >> > >> > >> On Jul 27, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Mark Abramowitz > <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> I've seen an animation of such a device for natural gas dispensing, > >> and am told it could just as easily be done for hydrogen. > >> > >> How does that address what I said? I've seen animations of the > >> Incredible Hulk, that doesn't support the proposition that it could > >> "just as easily be done for X." > >> > >>> But we know that whatever is being talked about... trip to the moon, > >> world peace, cold fusion... you will be certain that it is "simpler, > >> cheaper, and easier than hydrogen." > >> > >> So, prove me wrong. What is it about hydrogen that you think is > > easier > >> to move than electrons? > >> > >> -Bill > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > >> Name: signature.asc > >> Type: application/pgp-signature > >> Size: 841 bytes > >> Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail > >> URL: > > > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140727/a966 > >> 07fb/attachment.pgp> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- Put this question to yourself: should I use everyone else to attain happiness, or should I help others gain happiness? *Dalai Lama * Tell me what it is you plan to do With your one wild and precious life? Mary Oliver, "The summer day." To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk. Thomas A. Edison <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasaed125362.html> A public-opinion poll is no substitute for thought. *Warren Buffet* Michael E. Ross (919) 550-2430 Land (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Google Phone (919) 631-1451 Cell (919) 513-0418 Desk [email protected] <[email protected]> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140728/7684e341/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
