I’m just catching up on this thread now, but I’m in the “not valuable enough to be added” camp. I’ve personally never needed such an abstraction – on my own or while teaching. Also, an anon function serves the purpose when needed without introducing a new concept. From the beginner perspective, I think `identify` adds more noise where it isn’t needed. Even following this thread and reading other lang usage, I still find the name awkward and struggle to see it being a net benefit to my code vs what I’d happily write today. Given how trivial it is to return the value yourself in a concise and clear way, I don’t think the value of it squatting in kernel is enough to justify an addition to the std lib.
> On Jul 21, 2019, at 8:47 AM, Bruce Tate <[email protected]> wrote: > > I want to speak to the beginners argument. I am not guessing. I spend 6-8 > hours teaching and mentoring every week, and it's more when school is in. > Concepts are easier to teach when those concepts have names and big concepts > can be broken down into smaller ones. The students I teach are about 80% new > to FP and about 40% new to programming in general. > > I will take the advice of mixing in FP.identity if it cuts against the grain > of what Elixir is about. > > Thanks to all for making Elixir the best it can be... let's keep it civil. I > think it makes a lot of sense to take José's suggestion and collect some of > these concepts into a library and prove their worth there, to language > learners and otherwise. > > -bt > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2019 at 5:12 AM Andrea Leopardi <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > My 2 cents. To me a strong argument against this is that &identity/1 still > looks confusing to newcomers with the capture syntax (how many "why can't I > just write identity like in Js questions do we get after all), so summed with > the other arguments against it makes me not want to add this to the language > personally. > > On Mon, 15 Jul 2019 at 09:30, Masoud Ghorbani <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > Isn't possible to have something like JavaScript arguments which correspond > with a list of parameters passed to function? > its more handy to lookup a parameter in a list or map until working with a > function to get a given parameter. > > On Tuesday, July 2, 2019 at 11:10:45 PM UTC+4:30, José Valim wrote: > Thanks Chris, it is important that someone being counter arguments, even if > they can be disproved. :) > > I definitely see how such a small function can be useful but, at the same > time, I am not convinced about the name "identity". > > I found it curious that Clojure actually have an identity function because > the definition of Identity they use when talking about values and change is a > more complex one (and one that really stuck with me): > > > By identity I mean a stable logical entity associated with a series of > > different values over time > > https://clojure.org/about/state#_working_models_and_identity > <https://clojure.org/about/state#_working_models_and_identity> > > Of course, my interpretation above is likely uncommon and there are other > interpretations of identity that would fit nicely. > > Anyway, to move the discussion forward, can someone do a more complete survey > on what this function are called in many of the other languages? I just want > to make sure we do our due diligence before adding it to the language. > > Thank you, > > José Valim > www.plataformatec.com.br <http://www.plataformatec.com.br/> > Skype: jv.ptec > Founder and Director of R&D > > > On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 8:25 PM Christopher Keele <[email protected] <>> > wrote: > Derp, I knew that. Good point. > > On Tue, Jul 2, 2019 at 9:55 AM Michał Muskała <[email protected] <>> wrote: > Because Elixir is a lisp-2 language, variables and functions are in different > "namespaces". This means you can have local variables with names of local > functions without any issues, but it also means you need different syntax > when you want to call a function contained in a variable. Or formulated > differently - variables can't shadow functions. For example, consider: > bar = &foo/0 > bar.() #=> 1 > bar() #=> 2 > > def foo(), do: 1 > def bar(), do: 2 > Having a Kernel.id/1 function would not preclude you from using variables > called id. > > Michał. > On 2 Jul 2019, 18:41 +0200, Christopher Keele <[email protected] <>>, wrote: >> I'd cast my vote against this. The proposal seems to be: >> >> 1. Create a function named 'id' or some such >> 2. Put it in the Kernel namespace (so it need not be prefixed) >> >> I've been doing a lot of python lately and they have a lot of things like >> this, including the same 'filter' global function mentioned in this thread. >> >> Points against: >> >> 1. It'd suck to not be able to use 'id' as a variable name, and would >> conflict with a lot of existing code. >> 2. Alternative names to 'id' or namespacing it are not shorter than '&(&1)' >> 3. '&(&1)' is more open to change with requirements >> 4. Adopting 'id' within Kernel would encourage adding more utility functions >> to it, exacerbating 1, like the proposed 'filter' function >> 5. Not adopting it within the Kernel would be hard, as there's no real >> appropriate place for it elsewhere in standard lib, unlike Enum's 'filter' >> >> Generally it's a nice idea, but I can't think of a great way to make it >> work, and it'd open the floodgates to more utility functions that I've come >> to find grating in day-to-day python development. >> >> Just my two cents, >> Chris K >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "elixir-lang-core" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/fffd5b76-4385-40de-93bd-148f1b94bb27%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/fffd5b76-4385-40de-93bd-148f1b94bb27%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google > Groups "elixir-lang-core" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/elixir-lang-core/tB61BHYIH1s/unsubscribe > <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/elixir-lang-core/tB61BHYIH1s/unsubscribe>. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected] <>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/b2149582-b8ba-4759-99ac-a634f73f3243%40Spark > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/b2149582-b8ba-4759-99ac-a634f73f3243%40Spark?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "elixir-lang-core" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/CAD9kT2R41gmZXU9_YAqAdyJQDP-M37j-mgUet-okoeBzF%3DdMDA%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/CAD9kT2R41gmZXU9_YAqAdyJQDP-M37j-mgUet-okoeBzF%3DdMDA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "elixir-lang-core" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/2bb429a8-e583-48c1-a335-8660c115b24f%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/2bb429a8-e583-48c1-a335-8660c115b24f%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > -- > > Andrea Leopardi > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "elixir-lang-core" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/CAM9Rf%2BJEN7vuwxxZFkrB8NytCCaSPAKtroMeA1sqe91n5SoFXg%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/CAM9Rf%2BJEN7vuwxxZFkrB8NytCCaSPAKtroMeA1sqe91n5SoFXg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > > Regards, > Bruce Tate > CEO > > > <https://bowtie.mailbutler.io/tracking/hit/f8218219-d2a8-4de4-9fef-1cdde6e723f6/c7c97460-016e-45fb-a4ab-0a70318c7b97> > > Groxio, LLC. > 512.799.9366 > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > grox.io <http://grox.io/> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "elixir-lang-core" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/CAFXvW-65ztTOMoVhZ407PghmYA0OBcuVhDatcjYx6Xw7f52pMQ%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elixir-lang-core/CAFXvW-65ztTOMoVhZ407PghmYA0OBcuVhDatcjYx6Xw7f52pMQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "elixir-lang-core" group. 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