Let's move on please.
Rick nk7i On 5/5/2024 10:42 AM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
hello To finish with this topic, I was just wondering if a device that is intended for use in remote stations, always connected and in some cases with no one to disconnect during storms, could not have a better USB connector, for example If he tells me it can't be done, fine, my question has been answered and thank you very much. time to move on to other virtues of Elecraft 73, Jorge CX6VM/CW5W El dom, 5 may 2024 a las 10:12, Mike Fatchett W0MU (<w...@w0mu.com>) escribió:Lightning is like wildfires which burn some houses or land but not others. There is no rhyme or reason why some devices are not damaged and other are. I suspect that most items were damaged but not made inoperable. Couldn't the argument be made that the computer or USB hub should do more and at what cost? You are quite lucky that your entire shack was not destroyed. I don't believe Elecraft should be blamed here, nor do I believe they need to do anything. There is no preponderance of data that shows the Elecraft interface is more or less susceptible to this damage. My power supplied failed and produced an over voltage situation which damaged my K3. It it the fault of the PS maker or Elecraft? These situations are why many of us have Insurance that cover these events. This coverage could be a homeowners policy or policies similar to the ARRL insurance program. These coverage's may or may not be available to everyone however. W0MU On 5/4/2024 10:57 PM, Rick NK7I wrote:Thread subject changed to reflect the actual topic. It is the station owner that is responsible for lightning protection (or other environmental risks); not Elecraft or most any product vendor of any type. To require more, would cost more (for the hardware and for the liability risk that the company would have to endure). The area/s missed in the protective system design, can be demonstrated by a nearby or direct hit (induced voltages and current can be almost as damaging); as you already found (and it's EASY to miss an entry point, no blame intended). The ARRL has a good amount of simplified how-to in the book "Grounding and Bonding" but several readings may still be needed for understanding the content. There are other good resources (Motorola has one, so does the cell phone industry; each is excellent but best used to induce sleep, they are intense and technical and reference various applicable laws). It's not all about lightning but static dissipation as an energy source. That static source may also be dust, wind, snow, or rain (yes, water). Diverting that charge OUTSIDE the building (shack) to GROUND is the basic plan but it must also include EVERY entry point (cable TV, phone, DSL, antenna, rotor, control cables for antennas, mast, satellite dishes and tower). Using several ground rods as part of a system is common BUT they must all be bonded to each other AND to the one common safety ground of the building (US and other countries require this, by law). Use of water pipes is no longer code, in the US (because PEX and PVC are common, defeating ability to take to ground). From your description Jorge, it sounds like you did it correctly, but missed an entry point. Now you'll have to replace parts, sadly. Let's limit any more, to Elecraft specific topics. This one has wandered well afield of Elecraft. 73, Rick nk7i On 5/4/2024 9:21 PM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:Hi Dave I have a panel like yours, each antenna to a discharger, on a copper sheet. Nothing has happened with the coaxial and antenna switch I have several rods that make the ground and a copper bar behind the desk and all the equipment is connected to the ground The lighting came through the antenna of my internet link, then it went to the router, then to the computer where I have the kpa1500 connected with a USB cable My question about whether Elecraft could do more is whether there could be something better than the USB it currently has, which seems to me to be a simple USB connector, like that of any printer for example. So there is my question, if for such an expensive piece of equipment, there could be something of better quality, if not, I apologize, we will have to live with these things. See you in the bands!!! Have a good weekend! 73, Jorge CX6VM/CW5W El dom, 5 may 2024 a las 1:08, Dave (NK7Z) (<d...@nk7z.net>) escribió:Jorge, I can only go by what you said: "Last week I experienced a lightning strike" That sounds a lot like a direct discharge into the shack, so I am responding to your comment, if that is not correct, please help me understand what actually happened... Lightening is strange, it can take out one piece of equipment, and not touch another... It all depends on how your shack is grounded, and how it is bonded. When grounding commercial equipment, even the path the wire takes is important... Curves, straight line runs, etc... What sort of ground system are you using, and what sort of lightening protection did you have in place at the time of the lightening event? Take a look at: https://www.nk7z.net/building-a-coax-entry-panel/ That is my entry panel. I am slowly building a ground ring around the house... Why? Because only I can build a system to help reduce the chances of lightening taking out something in my environment. It is after all my home, and my environment, so I can not, and do not, hold Elecraft responsible for things they can not control. Elecraft, can not be responsible for my grounding, and bonding practices. Respectfully, in your original question you implied that Elecraft should have done more to make the KPA1500 withstand an as yet, correctly defined lightening event. Again, respectfully, if you believe Elecraft failed in some way, then you should say what, and how they failed... Not imply they should have done more... That is unfair. With respect to the weekend-- I hope to see you in the 7QP contest! I will be on Sunday, but I fear the Sun will not assist much... Take care my friend... 73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 5/4/24 17:42, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:hi Dave I don't know what to tell you, I imagine that a direct discharge into the shack would have burned everything. I had 6 USB cables connected to the laptop, they burned the USB of a box of GHE that costs $160 and the USB of the KPA1500 that costs +$7000 rotor controls and other PCs did not burn In short, it was the fear I had of buying new and sophisticated equipment living so far from where the company is located. Have a good weekend 73, Jorge CX6VM/CW5W El sáb, 4 may 2024 a las 21:31, Dave (NK7Z) (<d...@nk7z.net <mailto:d...@nk7z.net>>) escribió: Hi Jorge, That device would not stand a strike... As per the US Weatherservice,(https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-power <https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-power>), a typicallighteningbolt runs around 300,000,000 volts, at 30,000 amps. That device is speced for 4000 volts... For Elecraft to protect the amp against a lightening strike as you described you had, they would need to add a LOT more hardware thanthatto the price of an already expensive amp, and most people would never see need the protection. Hence why they don't even try and protect against a direct lightening strike. The onus for lightening protection always rests with the deviceowner.73, and thanks, Dave (NK7Z) https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net> ARRL Volunteer Examiner ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 5/4/24 16:36, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote: > Dave > > I am not an engineer and I don't know anything about electronics either, > but I am very receptive to the solutions that many radio friends give me. > > which made me think if the kpa1500 or k4 usb was built with something > like this, >https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387A<https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387A<https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387A<https://www.blackbox.com/en-ca/store/product/detail/USB-to-USB-Isolator-4-kV-1-Port/SP387Ait might be beneficial or not, just thinking out loud> > 73, > Jorge > CX6VM/CW5W > > El sáb, 4 may 2024 a las 19:06, Dave (NK7Z) (<d...@nk7z.net <mailto:d...@nk7z.net> > <mailto:d...@nk7z.net <mailto:d...@nk7z.net>>>) escribió: > > Jorge, > > I would imagine if you approach Elecraft with that mindset,their> thoughts will be you should take care of your own lightening protection. > > 73, and thanks, > Dave (NK7Z) >https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net> <https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net>> > ARRL Volunteer Examiner > ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI > ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources > > On 5/4/24 09:10, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote: > > Last week I experienced a lightning strike and the I/O module of > my KPA1500 > > was damaged, what has Elecraft thought to ensure that the > equipment is not > > damaged? > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> > <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>> > Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> > <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>> > Post:mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net <mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net> <mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net <mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>> > > This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net> <http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> > <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>>> Message deliveredtocx6vm.jo...@gmail.com <mailto:cx6vm.jo...@gmail.com> > <mailto:cx6vm.jo...@gmail.com <mailto:cx6vm.jo...@gmail.com>> > > > > -- > 73, > Jorge > CX6VM/CW5W ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft> Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm> Post:mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net <mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net>This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net> Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html> Message deliveredtocx6vm.jo...@gmail.com <mailto:cx6vm.jo...@gmail.com> -- 73, Jorge CX6VM/CW5W______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered tow...@w0mu.com______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home:http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by:http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list:http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered tocx6vm.jo...@gmail.com
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