2012/11/5 Martin Meiss <[email protected]>

> Howdie, Ecologers,
>
>         As others have pointed out, based on their knowledge of ecology,
> using a single axis (good, fair, poor) to evaluate ecosystems is inherently
> flawed.  I would extend this to say that it is inherently flawed for
> mathematical/pragmatic reasons, as well.  Any time we collapse multiple
> axes to a single axis, we are throwing away dimensions of information. This
> can only be justified if the purpose of the desired metric is very limited,
> such as "good for people to drink," or "good to sustain a trout
> population."  The most disgustingly sewer-polluted lake in the world is
> good from the standpoint of some organisms, such as anaerobic bacteria.
>
>         Additionally, one respondent use the term "healthy" in application
> to ecosystems, and I have seen this also in many other threads on this
> list-serve.  So now I must ask, is the concept of a "healthy" ecosystem
> really meaningful?  Or does it simply mean something like "this ecosystem
> hasn't been messed with very much by people"?
>
>          Of course, one could ask "healthy for whom?"  Again, the
> sewage-filled lake is healthy for anaerobes, but this doesn't seem to be
> what people mean.  They seem to use the term as though health is a property
> of an ecosystem itself, not a reflection of the requirements of one of its
> participants.
>
>          Other times people apply "healthy" to populations, e.g., "There
> is a healthy trout population in that lake."  Does this mean that the trout
> are relatively disease free, or is this form of health something reflected
> in the demographics of the population (e.g., stable age structure),
> irrespective of the state of its component individuals?
>
>          Does these uses of the word make sense?  Is health the property
> of an ecosystem or population?  If so, is it analogous to health in a plant
> or an animal?  If not, is not the word misleading, and best avoided?
>
> Martin M. Meiss
>
>
> 2012/11/4 malcolm McCallum <[email protected]>
>
>> The outcomes of what Nolan refers to are published in the ASTM
>> Standard Methods.
>> These will be under effluent testing, 48 hr, 24 hr, etc acute and
>> chronic tox assays
>> using daphnae, chironomids, etc.  There are other effluent testing
>> protocols for testing impairment,
>> most are standard methods under US EPA manuals. OThers, are published
>> by the American Water Works Association. .
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 10:21 AM, J. Michael Nolan
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Took a course one time taught by John Cairns, Ph.D. of VA Tech at the
>> U. of Michigan. His entire push was to use macroinvertebrates, etc. as more
>> important tools of monitoring Water Quality in not only Streams, Rivers,
>> but also Lakes. So, find publications from him.
>> >
>> > I'm sure in all of the indices mentioned to this point, Fecal Coliform
>> Bacteria are included in many of them. If not they should be.
>> >
>> > Also, took a course in Limnology once. Find some good texts on the
>> topic and you will find some good recommendations.
>> >
>> > Thank you.
>> >
>> > Mike Nolan
>> >
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>>
>> --
>> Malcolm L. McCallum
>> Department of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry
>> School of Biological Sciences
>> University of Missouri at Kansas City
>>
>> Managing Editor,
>> Herpetological Conservation and Biology
>>
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>>
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