Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2012 07:50:32 -0700
From: [email protected]
Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Ecosystem function definition Re: [ECOLOG-L]
Visualizing functional diversity
To: [email protected]
Ling and Ecolog:
It seems to me that before one moves into method, one should understand
the
question first, and I make no claim to being able to do so. When you say
"I
have done an extensive literature search and have not found where this has
been done before . . . " were you referring to a definition of ecosystem
function or to the methodology?
I remember well a conversation with Dick Vogl years ago when I blithely
used
the term "ecosystem function." Dick said "I'm not sure that anybody knows
what ecosystem function is." Vogl had a way of stimulating one's thinking
with stuff like that. I do have some vague ideas about what ecosystem
function is, but I have never brought it all together, so I thought maybe
you had, or knew of someone who had, as you seemed to be using the term at
least as confidently as I did when Vogl made his statement.
My thoughts about ecosystem function are still at the question phase and
yet
consist of an assemblage of "stuff" like Juan mentioned rather than a
complete explanation of the phenomenon. "Functional diversity" is to me a
yet more mysterious concept which I would have to come to understand
before
venturing forth any ideas about methodology, and certainly would have no
clue about the relative usefulness of one method or set of methods over
the
other.
It does, however, seem sensible to me that almost any kind of comparative
analysis of similar ecosystem subsets like estuaries would be useful, even
if it would not, in of itself, get at causality, for example, as it would
at
least pave the way toward further analysis.
This is the sort of question that I think might be helped by the proposal
I
have submitted to the Smithsonian Encyclopedia of Life program and kindly
posted by one of the staff. Briefly, that proposal is to begin to gather
data on organisms' ranges of requirements and limitations.
I hope someone can lead me to whoever may have defined ecosystem function
in
a comprehensive, scientific way that is widely accepted by the discipline.
WT
----- Original Message -----
From: "ling huang" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:52 PM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Visualizing functional diversity
Hi
No (sorry Wayne I was not clear) my response was not to the 'Please
describe
function in ecosystems.question,' but about the 'but I have done an
extensive literature search and have not found where this has been done
before - perhaps because it is a bad idea for other reasons?' and 'Would
it
also be appropriate to use these values in a PAM or other clustering
method
to identify estuaries that are more/less similar in functional diversity?'
I am suggesting to make use of some stat software such as SAS or SYSTAT
and
do a multivariate cluster analysis on the variables (functional diversity
variables on hand) for the statistical grouping of like estuaries. These
variables may well include a subset of those mentioned by Juan; namely
'(regulation [climate,
nutrient cycling, pollination], habitat [refugia, nursery, etc.],
information [scientific info, recreation, cultural and aesthetic] and
production [food, genetic and medicinal resources, raw materials, etc.]
functions)'.
Best wishes,
Ling
Ling Huang
Sacramento City College
Thanks, Juan; I do appreciate the reference, but I am looking for a
simper answer than that--a scientifically-based explanation of what
ecosystem function means as an actual or theoretical feature of actual
ecosystems. I am definitely not interested in ". . . an anthropocentric
concept (as humans depend on ecosystems to survive) because is described
as the capacity of the natural processes to provide an array of direct
or indirect services or benefits to humans." I would be delighted to
hear a discussion of benefits to humans some other time, however, but I
do not want this discussion to wander off the central, very basic
question now.
WT
----- Original Message -----
From: Juan Alvez
To: Wayne Tyson
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Visualizing functional diversity
Hi Wayne,
You can best visualize ecosystem functions in a paper written 10 years ago
by De Groot and others,
(Ref: de Groot, R.S., Wilson, M.A., Boumans, R.M.J., 2002. A typology
for the classification, description and valuation of ecosystem
functions, goods and services. Ecological Economics 41, 393-408.).
It describes four main ecosystem functions (regulation [climate,
nutrient cycling, polination], habitat [refugia, nursery, etc.],
information [scientific info, recreation, cultural and aesthetic] and
production [food, genetic and medicinal resources, raw materials, etc.]
functions).
It is certainly an anthropocentric concept (as humans
depend on ecosystems to survive) because is described as the capacity of
the natural processes to provide an array of direct or indirect
services or benefits to humans.
Best,
Juan
--- On Thu, 9/27/12, Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Wayne Tyson <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Visualizing functional diversity
To: "ling huang" <[email protected]>, [email protected]
Date: Thursday, September 27, 2012, 5:34 PM
Ling and Ecolog:
No, I'm not. I'm looking for just what I asked. I would like your (or
anybody's) explanation of what you mean by ecosystem function--in plain
language.
I presume that that would be very easy to do. I kept my question simple in
the hopes of getting such an answer, but I would welcome an explanation of
"functional diversity" too.
WT
----- Original Message ----- From: "ling huang" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:15 PM
Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Visualizing functional diversity
It sounds as though you are looking to do a cluster analysis for
statistical
grouping of like estuaries. This method is outlined in virtually all
multivariate analysis books. PROC CLUSTER is the SAS procedure.
Best
Ling
Ling Huang
Sacramento City College
--- On Wed, 9/26/12, Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> wrote:
From: Wayne Tyson <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Visualizing functional diversity
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, September 26, 2012, 7:11 PM
Please describe function in ecosystems.
WT
----- Original Message ----- From: "Katharine Miller"
<[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 4:07 PM
Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Visualizing functional diversity
Hello,
I have used Rao's quadratic entropy to evaluate functional diversity
between
a number of estuaries for which I also have a GIS database. I would like
to
be able to visualize which sites are more functionally similar across the
region to evaluate patterns in dispersal, etc.
I know it is possible to use the pairwise functional beta diversity values
as a distance matrix in a Mantel test or multivariate regression on
distances matrices (MRM) when comparing functional diversity to, for
example, environmental data. Would it also be appropriate to use these
values in a PAM or other clustering method to identify estuaries that are
more/less similar in functional diversity?
This is likely to sound like a very naive question, but I have done an
extensive literature search and have not found where this has been done
before - perhaps because it is a bad idea for other reasons?
Any insights and/or references on this approach would be greatly
appreciated.
Thank you
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