Hey Wayne I would disagree that "ecosystems" are inherently sustainable...rather they are highly variable, mutating, and moving in and out of existence...and even the definition of our "natural" ecosystems and plant communities are changing as we come accept the persistence of new species or alterations of the landscape.
I think we should be happy that the ornamental horticulture industry is adapting the buzz words and concepts of sustainability. If I am understanding you right, it seems you disagree with the existence of cultivated non native landscapes, right? I don't think we are ever going to persuade our communities to entirely give up the idea of a cultivated landscape around their homes and other urban areas as well they are the foundation of urban forest ecosystems. I actually think we should encourage the blending of the methodology and practices of natural area landscape ecology and restoration with the practice of cultivated landscapes. The input of the research community may affect preferred species choices...which in turn has subsequent effects on future resource use and wildland urban interface issues. Our local water mangement district promotes the concept of "right plant, right place" rather than a rigid native only mantra. The idea being to plant less resource intensive plant species that also require less maintenance. I don't think there is such a fine line between resource intensive cultivated landscapes when it comes their ecosystem services...maybe it has more to do where you define them...e.g. canopy cover, rainfall interception/stormwater runoff minimization, wildlife resource/refuge, and or human/sociological impacts like aesthetics, monetary value, pollution mitigation...as applies to an urban ecosystem. Good conversation :D! Cheers Carolyn On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> wrote: > MM and Ecolog: > > Yeah, I think I failed to make the distinction between external inputs by > humans in order to keep their preferred assemblages going and the inputs > from the sun, the site, and physical and biological changes--which I do not > consider external to the system. > > I share your assumption that ". . . they were interested in creating > assemblages of plants that landowners would find attractive but that don't > require much human intervention," but the key concept is in the word "much." > How much is much, and where does a self-sufficient system end and a > subsidized system begin? Also, the idea that it is a requirement that the > plant assemblages be ones that "landowners would find attractive" also is > key--the key to understanding the distinction between a system that cycles > nutrients and one that is dependent upon action upon cultural preferences to > maintain the assemblage under luxury consumption conditions. > > WT > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Martin Meiss > To: Wayne Tyson > Cc: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:31 PM > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Ecology and Sustainability Re: [ECOLOG-L] > Sustainable Landscapes Seminar 10/27 at Morton Arboretum (Lisle, IL) > > > Wayne, > I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are we to assume that you mean > ecosystems don't require inputs from humans? All ecosystems require inputs > (sun, air, water, etc.), but the original post did not use the term > "ecosystem." It spoke in terms of landscaping, and I expect from the topics > of the discussions that they were interested in creating assemblages of > plants that landowners would find attractive but that don't require much > human intervention. > > Martin M. Meiss > > > 2011/10/20 Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> > > Ecolog: > > While I make no judgment concerning the original message which > stimulated my question, I will appreciate any comments regarding the meaning > of sustainability with respect to ecosystems and "ornamentals" and > "landscaping" (which often translates into replacing ecosystems with > assemblages of non-indigenous species). > > It seems to me that ecosystems are inherently sustainable--that is, they > require zero external inputs (e.g. irrigation, nutrients, "maintenance"). In > fact, I consider assemblages (or individuals) of organisms which do require > external inputs unsustainable by definition--it is self-evident or goes (or > should go) without saying. > > WT > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan Dunning" < > [email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 2:09 PM > Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Sustainable Landscapes Seminar 10/27 at Morton > Arboretum (Lisle, IL) > > > The Ornamental Growers Association and The Morton Arboretum are > convening a > seminar on sustainable landscape practices for the green industry > professional. Please join us on Oct 27 to discuss recommendations on > what to > plant to turn sustainability into landscape reality with local peers and > experts. > > Sustainable Landscapes for a Greener Future > Thursday, Oct 27, 1 - 5:30 pm. > The Morton Arboretum > Thornhill Education Center > 4100 Illinois Route 53 > Lisle, IL 60532 > > Registration: $49 (discounts available for students and members) > > For more information or to register, visit > www.mortonarb.org/education/adults or call 630-719-2468 between 8 am - > 4 pm, > Mon - Fri. > > > Program > > Plant Selection and Design to Achieve a Desired SITES Rating, Jacob > Blue, > Applied Ecological Services > > A Native Plant for Every Situation, Grace Koehler, Pizzo Native Plant > Nursery > > Woody Plants for Sustainable Landscapes, Jeff Swano, Dig Right In > Landscaping > > Panel discussion - Sustainable Landscapes in Practice > Kathleen Bruch, Atrium Landscaping; Jim Semelka, Village of Oak Park; > Ken > Doty, Hinsdale Nurseries; Jill Enz, Applied Ecological Services; and > Kris > Bachtell, The Morton Arboretum > > A networking reception will follow the panel. Please feel free to > circulate > this message to others who might be interested. > > > Sincerely, > > > Megan Dunning > Manager of Community Education & Outreach > The Morton Arboretum > [email protected] > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 1522/3963 - Release Date: 10/20/11 > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 1522/3963 - Release Date: 10/20/11 > -- The clearest way into the universe is through a forest wilderness. -- John Muir
