A summary of responses. Thank you for all the participation and = apologies for the formatting. I tried to paste an image of a turtles = plastron and a recommended notching technique. There is a citation for = it below, if you want the actual image contact me directly.
Mike Nolan I would think some paint would work fine in the short term for turtles - they would have to be held long enough to let it dry - a blow dryer helps.. :) They could also use different colors or paint spots on different areas of the carapace to identify individuals - it would be a cool lab = project. You can use a standard drill to drill tiny holes in one or more marginal = scutes, using either an established or a custom code for naming these=20 marginal scutes. For closed populations, yes. Variations of Jolly-Seber or=20 Cormack-Jolly-Seber for open pops. I mark freshwater mussels all the time and I think that our method is relatively un-invasive. We use superglue and floy tags. You could use any small coded plastic object (even color-coded plastic beads) and glue to an area of the shell that is unlikely to cause the turtle harm (not sure what to suggest there). My collaborator's tags have stayed on for longer than 8 years. If you are just trying to get a simple Lincoln-Peterson estimate, you won't need long-term marks; just marks = that will stay on long enough to satisfy assumptions of the estimate. =20 Turtles can be notched with using a small triangular file to file a =20 notch in the shell. For a one time study of a small group of turtles, =20 you can easily set up a code system making use of the 22 to 24 marginal = scutes on the turtle's carapace. Turtles usually have 12 marginals on =20 the right and left side. Just file deeply enough to make a mark that is = 1-2 mm deep. This causes only temporary annoyance to the turtle and =20 does not cause any serious pain. Notching is a standard method, =20 developed in the 30s. The marks will actually last for years, depending = on the age of the turtle. I was in Honduras this past june where they are doing mark/recapture of = Hawskbills and Green Sea Turtles.=20 I believe they used a dremel tool to engrave the # in the carapace, = filled the grooves with white out and then sealed it with enamel (nail = or otherwise). It seemed that paint alone was not good enough, and if = you don't want to tag a flipper... the little guys get a turtle tattoo = of sorts.=20 In case you would like to get more info, turtle waiting pool is at = www.reefhouseresort.com look for the TAPS link at the bottom of the = page.=20 Have seen nail polish put to good uses in cases like this, even with = beetles, etc. Not sur eabout how "weather proof" it is however. We have had success with the following method for tagging Asian shore = crabs in salt water. Get some waterproof paper. (Ward's sells it). Print = out your numbers or letters for tagging on the waterproof paper using a = laser (not inkjet) printer. Once the turtle shell is dry, attach the tag = using clear nail polish. I'll be very interested to hear how this works = for you and what others can suggest.=20 I would look at those small cordless dremel tools they sell at hardware=20 stores. A small engraving tip would work well. It may be semi permanent, but you can devise a code of dots or slashes=20 if you want the marks to not be visible to the public. For a short term study, you could easily notch the back of the shell=20 in different patterns with a little file -- Ron Brooks at the University of Guelph has been doing long-term =20 studies on painted turtles and marks them by painting a number on the =20 carapace. I've done carapace notching myself and it's not that =20 difficult - you jst need to make sure not to go deeper than 1/3 of the =20 way into the scute. I've also done volunteer work with a rehab centre that is rearing =20 endangered Wood Turtles. They keep track of the individuals there by =20 marking the marginal scutes with nail polish since the carapaces are =20 too soft to notch when young - and they grow out quickly in younger =20 turtles. THe nail polish doesn't last very long though, I believe it =20 has to be reapplied every month or so. I meant to mention that one positive thing about painting something on =20 the backs of the turtles as Ron Brooks does, is that they can be =20 observed later without recapture. Students could watch basking =20 turtles with binoculars to see if they are marked. We mark limpets and snails in the rocky intertidal. One low tech way to = mark them is to use super glue and bee tags. Another is to use = differernt colors of permenant markers and then cover the marks with = super glue. Both should work on a turtle shell and should be pretty low = cost. The important thing is to make sure the shell is DRY when you = mark them. Hope that helps. I am sure if you're creative you can come = up with some other non-intrusive ways to mark the shells. The above = methods last for a year or more in the intertidal. =20 Notching the shell with a file is the best way to mark turtles. It does = not hurt the turtle because the marginal scutes are kinda like finger = nails. =20 Some people put a small piece of paper with a number on it on the = carapace and cover this with epoxy. It is used mostly for terrestrial = species but may work for a short time period for aquatic turtles. =20 I spent a little time studying river turtles in Venezuela and we were about as low-tech as they come, but effective I think. We just had big metal files that we would use to make v-shaped notches in the edge of the plastron. It does take a little bit of time and elbow grease to do this on larger turtles, so we tried to use a small hand saw to make the job go quicker. We soon stopped that though, because it made the turtles bleed, whereas the filing method did not and we had to assume that where there is blood there has to be pain. I am just passing this along to you in the interest of humane treatment. Good luck.=20 I've done some research into means of marking and tagging seahorses, but = I think my erudite feminine suggestion for this one would be - nail = polish. You're right about notching the shells, but you're wrong about where to do it. You want to avoid the bridge (i.e., the area where the carapace and plastron meet), and only place marks on the marginal scutes of the four quadrants. I used either a triangular or circular metal file to make the marks. There are several ways of numbering or lettering the scutes so that each turtle has an individual mark. I used the alphabet to identify mine (see attached) because it's the easiest to remember. Here's the source: Gibbons, J.W. 1988. Turtle population studies. Carolina Tips 51(12):45-47. Figure 2. Marking system utilized in this study, as described in = Gibbons (1988). Example of turtle identified as IPX by notches filed in = the marginal scutes. Hatched areas indicate the bridge of the shell. If you don't want to cut into the shell (which clearly hurts the = turtle), and you want an obvious mark, the only way that I know of is to = paint the shell. In my studies, I put a permanent mark (I drilled a = small hole in the shell in one or two marginals NOT attached to the = bridge with a unique set of marginals drilled for each turtle) and a = temporary mark (paint). I tried a variety of paints, none lasted more = than a few months because the aquatic turtles I studied shed their = scutes. The easiest is to use a xylene based rubberized marker with a = very light colored pigment (white or yellow). It dries quickly but you = need to go over the characters a few times. The one I used was = manufactured by Sport Divers Mfg. (for marking wet suits). I don't know = if it is still made. I also tried the sort of paint junk yards use to = mark car parts (works but doesn't stick as well, comes in a small = plastic bottle with a steel roller ball in the tip), epoxy paint (takes = too long to dry so can smear when the turtle is released), and enamel = spray paint (which unfortunately requires a template to spray through = for each character, tends to run, and several coats are necessary---but = it lasts the longest). The shell must be completely dry, otherwise the = paint runs and doesn't stick well. A lot of people stick the turtle on = a color photocopier and photocopy the plastron as the permanent mark. = If the study goes on for more than a month or so, a permanent way of = identifying an individual is necessary so the paint mark can be put back = on after the marked scutes have been shed. Call weekdays, evenings and weekends. Leave your phone number/best time = to return your call and/or your e-mail address if we are on another line = or away from our phones.=20 Sincerely, J. Michael Nolan, Director =20 Rainforest and Reef 501 (c)(3) non-profit *************************************************************************= ********* "Outstanding-Affordable Field Courses in Rainforest & Marine Ecology" "Spanish Immersion offered in Mexico, Costa Rica,=20 Nicaragua, Panama, Bolivia, Ecuador and Peru" Web: http://iwanttolearnspanish.org (being updated for 07) U.S. Office: Rainforest and Reef 501 (c)(3) non-profit P.O. Box 141543 Grand Rapids, Michigan 49514-1543 USA Phone: 1.616.604.0546=20 Toll Free: 1.877.255.3721 Skype Phone: mikenolan1 Live Chat and Phone MS Live Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: http://www.rainforestandreef.org (being updated for 07) Latin America Office: P.O. Box 850-1150 San Jos=E9, Costa Rica, Central America Att: Juan Pablo Bello C. 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