Honorable Forum: This is a fascinating discussion, right down where the intellectual wheel meets the phenomenological road. I hope it keeps rolling, at least until all the "positions" are simply, clearly and comprehensively stated. It is a pivotal issue, and what makes it especially interesting is how many angels are so far out on each arm (I won't smart off about flailing wings, etc.).
WT "The suspension of judgment is the highest exercise in intellectual discipline." --Raymond Gilmore At 06:42 AM 3/9/2006, stan moore wrote: >M. McCallum wrote: > > >Good science is a falicy. Either its science following the scientific = > >method or its not science. Period. > >I agree with most of the rest of what you said. > >=20 > >Malcolm L. McCallum > >Assistant Professor > >Department of Biological Sciences > >Texas A&M University Texarkana > >2600 Robison Rd. > >Texarkana, TX 75501 > >O: 1-903-233-3134 > >H: 1-903-791-3843 > >Homepage: https://www.eagle.tamut.edu/faculty/mmccallum/index.html > > >to which I reply: This is an interesting concept and a typical one and >deserves further consideration. I don't have time to do this right this >moment, but it occurs to me that perhaps mankind will ultimately realize >that the pursuit of formulaic science will prove to be a predominate factor >in the self-destruction of our species. A possibly theory is that mankind >places so much emphasis on process and method that the true meaning of the >(natural history) data is lost in a sort of haze of myopic enslavement to >process. It enables us to destroy or degrade the fundamental ecological >processes of evolution while micro-analyzing the phenomena involved all the >way around and around the slowly turning spiral towards extinction. We >study the fisheries and the forests and varous ecological compoenents of the >world with increasing sophistication while ignoring the value system that >ought to tell us to self-impose limits on our impacts. Aldo Leopold said >that a fundamental rule of tinkering is to not throw away any of the parts, >but we tinker and tinker and measure and analyze as if the ramifications of >the tinkering were just another excuse to engage in further analysis. > >Stan Moore San Geronimo, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > >=20 > > > >________________________________ > > > >From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news on behalf of = > >Michael Sears > >Sent: Wed 3/8/2006 7:00 PM > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: Re: "Hamerstrom science" (deliberate non-use of statistical = > >analysis) > > > > > > > >If you can design an elegant experiment that only requires a t-test for = > >its > >analysis, that is admirable. But the simple truth of the matter, in my > >experience, is that many folks don't take the time to design a good = > >experiment, > >often collect data with disregard to any theory, and simply collect what = > >is easy > >or is the data that everyone else collects, hoping in the end that = > >somehow > >through mathemagic, they can make something out of their efforts. To = > >paraphrase > >Burnham and Anderson, 90% of our time should be spent thinking and only = > >10% > >doing. I'd suggest folks be aware of theory and design experiments with = > >regard > >to it, such that the design and analysis are set BEFORE the data are = > >collected. > >Often, but not always, if that is done, an overly complex analysis may = > >not be > >necessary...but some complicated hypotheses do require complex analyses. = > >This is > >the nature of good science. > > > > > >Mike Sears > >Assistant Professor > >Department of Zoology > >Southern Illinois University > >Carbondale, IL 62901 > > > >email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >web: http://equinox.unr.edu/homepage/msears > > > > > >Quoting stan moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > Folks -- > > > > > > In view of recent discussions of modeling and the correct choice and = > >use of > > > > > > them, the correct analysis of assumptions, etc., I am reminded of a > > > contrarian method of science related to Frederick and Fran Hamerstrom, = > >two > > > > > > graduate students of Aldo Leopold, now deceased. Frederick and Fran = > >were > > > expert ecologists, but of the "old school" in that they practiced a = > >form of > > > > > > science that is in danger of extinction. > > > > > > The September, 1992 issue of the Journal of Raptor Research (Vol. 26, = > >No. 3) > > > > > > was dedicated to the work of the Hamerstroms and edited by two former > > > "gabboons" of theirs, Drs. Josef Scmutz and Keith Bildstein. An = > >interesting > > > > > > letter was published in that issue of JRR, written by Dr. Schmutz, = > >entitled > > > > > > "Hamerstrom Science From a Gabboon's Point of View", pp. 206-210. > > > > > > Here is a quote from that paper: "To think that only those who employ > > > up-to-date statistical procedure carry out "good science" is flawed. = > >The > > > difficulties encountered in the study of complex natural events are so > > > enormous that even approaches which are considered to be = > >state-of-the-art by > > > > > > peers are often insufficient. S.H. Hurlbert concluded that of 176 > > > experimental studies published between 1960 and 1983, 27% were = > >designed > > > inappropriately... Perhaps, the message from the Hamerstroms is not = > >to use > > > > > > the term "chain" when the strength is equivalent to that provided by a > > > "string". Much of what is considered "good science" is done not = > >because the > > > > > > method warrants it or because a paradigm dictates it, but because it = > >is > > > consideredc the approach of choice by peers within one's "invisible > > > college". " > > > > > > A couple of years ago, Dr. Steve Herman in an invited paper to the = > >Wildlife > > > > > > Society Bulletin, lamented the "lust for statistics" and the = > >distortion > > > between research and management now so prevalent in the wildlife > > > profession. > > > > > > I admire and enjoy the philosophy of such contrarians! > > > > > > > > > Stan Moore San Geronimo, CA [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------- > >This mail sent through https://webmail.unr.edu
