Man, sorry for the weird random capitalization, y’all.  Autocorrect has a mind 
of its own. 

Also, what Matt said: perhaps we could approach consensus if those in favor of 
the proposal would articulate their thoughts on why specifying a two-letter is 
the best solution to (this, any) problem, the rest of us might be able to see 
why you feel your case is compelling. 
    
                -Bill


> On Nov 22, 2019, at 07:15, Bill Woodcock <wo...@pch.net> wrote:
> 
> Eberhard:
> 
> The principle I’m trying to articulate is that our relationship to ISO 3166 
> is that of a standards body which has delegated to it.  
> 
> ISO 3166, in turn, specifies that this code is (for now, and at their 
> authority) to be used by USERS for their purposes. 
> 
> It’s my assertion that it’s bad form for us, having placed ourselves in the 
> standards body role on one side of ISO, to now also claim that we, the same 
> people, are also  “users”  Standing on the other side of ISO.  
> 
> That seems to me to not be in the spirit of a good-faith delegation.  
> 
> If we want to start individually specifying the meaning or use of two-letter 
> TLDs, it’s my assertion that We should first un-delegate that role from ISO, 
> and take direct control of the task, not attempt to stand on both sides of 
> them. And I think the harm of doing so would vastly outweigh any benefit. 
> Therefore I think this shouldn’t be done. Either we delegate authority to 
> them, or we don’t. No splitting the baby. 
> 
>                -Bill
> 
> 
>> On Nov 22, 2019, at 02:17, Dr Eberhard W Lisse <e...@lisse.na> wrote:
>> 
>> Bill,
>> 
>> ISO has new draft out as part of their regular maintenance cycle which
>> states
>> 
>>   [...]  In addition exactly 42 alpha-2 code elements are not used in
>>   the ISO 3166, AA, QM to QZ, XA to XZ, ZZ. This rule may change in
>>   the future.  [...]
>> 
>> and then references this
>> 
>>   If users need code elements to represent country names not included
>>   in this part of ISO 3166, the series of letters AA, QM to QZ, XA to
>>   XZ, and ZZ [...] are available.
>> 
>> I read that to mean that a .ZZ (or rather any of the 42 possibles) would
>> be safe to use in our context.
>> 
>> If the rule were to change I would however speculate that the wishes of
>> the government concerned might prevail over the wishes of ICANN.
>> 
>> Whether this all is safe enough to write a standard, I don't know.
>> 
>> 
>> el
>> 
>> 
>>> On 22/11/2019 10:26, Bill Woodcock wrote:
>>>> On Nov 22, 2019, at 12:20 AM, Shane Kerr <sh...@time-travellers.org>
>>>> wrote: 
>>>> 
>>>> "User-assigned codes - If users need code elements to represent
>>>> country names not included in ISO 3166-1, the series of letters AA,
>>>> QM to QZ, XA to XZ, and ZZ, and the series AAA to AAZ, QMA to QZZ,
>>>> XAA to XZZ, and ZZA to ZZZ respectively, and the series of numbers
>>>> 900 to 999 are available.  NOTE: Please be advised that the above
>>>> series of codes are not universal, those code elements are not
>>>> compatible between different entities."
>>>> 
>>>> So the intention of the ISO at least is that these codes are used by
>>>> users.  (I'm not sure what the scary warning means.)  Certainly I
>>>> have made heavy use of .Q* and .X* in my own testing, with the
>>>> assumption that these would never be assigned (and yes, there is
>>>> .TEST but sometimes you need more than one one TLD).
>>> 
>>> Right.  And in fact, “unassigned” ISO codes _do_ get used, for places
>>> like Kosovo, that are in a state of disputed or partially-recognized
>>> countryhood, and ranges that are reserved for user use really should
>>> be left for that use, because they do in fact get used by users, so
>>> any centrally-coordinated use will run afoul of that.
>>> 
>>> Again, this is an argument from principle rather than an argument
>>> based on the specific case at hand.  I just think that we have a
>>> well-established precedent that all two-letter TLDs are derived from
>>> ISO 3166 Alpha-2, and it’s bad form to cross back over and start
>>> poaching in their territory.
>>> 
>>>                               -Bill
>> 
>> -- 
>> Dr. Eberhard W. Lisse   \         /      Obstetrician & Gynaecologist 
>> e...@lisse.na             / *      | Telephone: +264 81 124 6733 (cell)
>> PO Box 8421              \      /
>> Bachbrecht 10007, Namibia ;____/
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> DNSOP mailing list
>> DNSOP@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dnsop
> 


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