On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 8:00 AM, <dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org> wrote:
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Re: Which package generates /lib/systemd and /etc/systemd > files? (KatolaZ) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 01:53:15 -0400 > From: Jaret Cantu <ja...@realitysend.com> > To: "dng@lists.dyne.org" <dng@lists.dyne.org> > Subject: Re: [Dng] Which package generates /lib/systemd and > /etc/systemd files? > Message-ID: <5549ac4b.10...@realitysend.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > On 05/06/2015 01:16 AM, Jude Nelson wrote: > > I think the plan is to address needless dependencies and lock-in in a > > more general way, via the constitution > > (https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-project/wikis/DevuanConstitution). > > Sections 2.2 and 9.10 are meant to alleviate this problem--not just > > for systemd, but for all software package suites that get included. > I really do try to be general and say "init systems" instead of focusing > on systemd, but it is really hard to keep up when one can't think of > another piece of software with claws as deep as systemd's. > > ... Glib2, maybe... > > > You may be interested to know that uselessd is effectively dead in the > > water. The original uselessd author has since given up > > (https://forums.darknedgy.net/viewtopic.php?id=4963). Someone else > > seems to have taken over, but I haven't heard anything about its > > subsequent progress (last repository commit is January 6: > > https://bitbucket.org/Tarnyko/uselessd). > I did kinda get that impression from the wasteland of a website, but > getting confirmation does sting a bit. > > > I'm personally not opposed to someone taking up maintenance of > > uselessd and packaging it in a way that it conforms to Devuan's > > constitution :) The problem is, we'd need to find someone with the > > time, skill, and willpower to do it. That person is not me. I barely > > have enough time to work on vdev as it is :( > It has been on my radar for a while. Or more accurately, at the bottom > of my To-Do Tower. It is one of those things that is hard to get > motivated to do when I personally know I'll never use it on a real system. > Prolly would rank a middling effort in terms of my revenge programming > projects. Maybe I just need fewer revenge projects in my To-Do Tower? > uselessd would at least give me an excuse to learn some of the black > magic what am systemd. (Last time I encountered a board with systemd on > it, I wound up booting it to NFS instead just so I could get the ssh > service properly auto-starting; it was a SOM without serial on the > carrier board, so "Why didn't you just run sshd?" is not a proper > response.) > > > > ~jaret > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 06:58:41 +0000 > From: Edward Bartolo <edb...@gmail.com> > To: dng <dng@lists.dyne.org> > Subject: [Dng] Is it useful to create a .so file to replace functions > imported from libsystemd & Co.? > Message-ID: > <CAKENem7M3R23M0RrnLbhjEveDwpVaNSzUaMy5cD3dPh= > cbh...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > I am using lsof together with objdump -T executable to determine what > systemd functions are imported by essential XFCE4 executables. > > For instance, this is for /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfs-udisks2-volume-monitor: > > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 LIBSYSTEMD_209 > sd_session_get_seat > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > udisks_object_get_type > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_dbus_interface_get_type > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_object_set_data > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_value_set_variant > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_volume_get_drive > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_drive_is_media_check_automatic > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > udisks_block_get_id_label > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_error_new_literal > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > udisks_filesystem_get_mount_points > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_timeout_source_new_seconds > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > udisks_object_info_get_description > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_io_channel_set_flags > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_variant_iter_free > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_drive_get_identifier > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_main_context_ref_thread_default > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > udisks_client_peek_object > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_type_class_peek > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_variant_lookup > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_strdup_vprintf > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > udisks_block_dup_id_uuid > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_unix_mount_get_fs_type > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_unix_mount_point_get_options > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_signal_accumulator_true_handled > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_mount_get_symbolic_icon > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_quark_try_string > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > udisks_drive_call_eject_finish > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 LIBSYSTEMD_209 > sd_pid_get_session > 0000000000000000 DF *UND* 0000000000000000 > g_file_get_type > > > The exercise is to search for these functions in systemd's source code > and create a .so file with only the required functions. The functions > can also be reimplemented, but that takes more time than simply > stripping the required functions. > > Edward > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 10:23:05 +0200 > From: Didier Kryn <k...@in2p3.fr> > To: dng@lists.dyne.org > Subject: [Dng] Please stop vain discussion > Message-ID: <5549cf69.1080...@in2p3.fr> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Dear devuaners, > > Debatting wether Devuan should allow systemd usage or forbid it > completely, or wether it should eradicate systemd service files from all > packages is interesting, but for sure prematurate. Let's discuss that > when someone proposes to do the job. > > Up to now nobody has proposed to eradicate those service files from > all packages except for himself and nobody has proposed to package > systemd for Devuan. And, as already said, there are more important > things to do if you have the necessary skills. > > Please let's stop exchanging flames in vain. > > Didier > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 10:29:59 +0200 > From: Jaromil <jaro...@dyne.org> > To: Jaret Cantu <ja...@realitysend.com> > Cc: dng@lists.dyne.org > Subject: Re: [Dng] A novice attempt to speed up Devuan development > Message-ID: <20150506082959.GA22891@fork> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > dear Jaret, > > thanks for your information > > On Tue, 05 May 2015, Jaret Cantu wrote: > > > eudev continues to pull in relevant udev changes from the systemd > > tree (without the init-specific filth, obviously) and even provides > > some fixes of its own. It is like a window into some magical world > > where udev development continues under the old banner. Well, a > > similar banner that is one character wider, at least. > > if this is true, then eudev is a really good candidate for us to > substitute udev and we should at least package it to see how it works, > while still waiting for vdev to get to a stable state. > > I was never a fan of udev all the way and think that Jude's approach at > redesigning is way better, yet eudev now is likely to be more stable if > the above is true. I'm particularly interested by the fact they are > backporting the updates in udev and even fixing some of them. > > can you provide examples in which this happened? > > just in case you have time, for us to better evaluate the option > > > The only difference I've really noticed with the last version of > > udev before being cannibalized and eudev is that eudev doesn't build > > against some old (pre-3.0) kernel headers. That's really only an > > issue for crufty embedded targets, not desktops, tho'. > > well, there are a few of those, NAS and mediaplayers, that are actually > widely distributed on the consumer market. Anyway I doubt they will > upgrade anything to the point they'll ever need to defend themselves > from the systemd avalanche. > > ciao > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 10:35:37 +0200 > From: Jaromil <jaro...@dyne.org> > To: Edward Bartolo <edb...@gmail.com> > Cc: dng <dng@lists.dyne.org> > Subject: Re: [Dng] Is it useful to create a .so file to replace > functions imported from libsystemd & Co.? > Message-ID: <20150506083537.GB22891@fork> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > > hi Edward, > > On Wed, 06 May 2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: > > > I am using lsof together with objdump -T executable to determine what > > systemd functions are imported by essential XFCE4 executables. > > > > For instance, this is for /usr/lib/gvfs/gvfs-udisks2-volume-monitor: > > [...] > > this was Dima's approach for making stubs in his loginkit. I guess he is > the best person to team up with to complete this approach, yet be aware > that it has revealed more complex than it sounds at the beginning, since > there is not only binary compatibility in the way, but messaging that > other program expect to happen. > > ciao > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 06:27:49 -0400 > From: Hendrik Boom <hend...@topoi.pooq.com> > To: dng@lists.dyne.org > Subject: Re: [Dng] Which package generates /lib/systemd and > /etc/systemd files? > Message-ID: <20150506102749.ga12...@topoi.pooq.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 11:12:46PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > > On Tue, May 05, 2015 at 05:34:19PM -0400, Miles Fidelman wrote: > > > > [cut] > > > > > >I meant "we should live with the fact that systemd is not unpluggable" > > > >:) > > > > > > Nicely put. But do you draw any implication from that vis-a-vis > > > supporting systemd in Devuan? (I certainly do :-) > > > > > > > If it was up to me (and it is not), I would make no effort at all in > > trying to have systemd in Devuan, since I believe there is no point in > > doing that. There is already a Debian with systemd, and is called > > Debian, while some great people out there are working hard to give us > > a Debian *without* systemd, which will be called Devuan. And the work > > of those people has been made extremely difficult by the fact that > > systemd is not designed to be pluggable on and off, and the systemd > > developers keep answering "won't fix" to any request for compatibility > > with other init system and low-level system daemons. They are > > definitely determined to go their way, whatever the cost of it, > > because they think that systemd is "right and technically sound". > > > > So why should we waste man-power on allowing to use systemd in a > > distribution whose first aim and motivation is to provide a > > systemd-free GNU/Linux?!?!? > > Nor should we waste manpower making it extra difficult for anyone to > use systemd on Devuan. They'll have a hard enough time already, and we > do too. > > -- hendrik > > > > > My2Cents > > > > KatolaZ > > > > -- > > [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] > > [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] > > [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] > > [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] > > _______________________________________________ > > Dng mailing list > > Dng@lists.dyne.org > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 6 May 2015 12:17:02 +0100 > From: KatolaZ <kato...@freaknet.org> > To: Hendrik Boom <hend...@topoi.pooq.com> > Cc: dng@lists.dyne.org > Subject: Re: [Dng] Which package generates /lib/systemd and > /etc/systemd files? > Message-ID: <20150506111702.gh22...@katolaz.homeunix.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Wed, May 06, 2015 at 06:27:49AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > > > So why should we waste man-power on allowing to use systemd in a > > > distribution whose first aim and motivation is to provide a > > > systemd-free GNU/Linux?!?!? > > > > Nor should we waste manpower making it extra difficult for anyone to > > use systemd on Devuan. They'll have a hard enough time already, and we > > do too. > > > > +1 > > :) > > -- > [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] > [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] > [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] > [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Dng Digest, Vol 8, Issue 24 > ********************************** >
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