>> That leaves the 2% benefit of cgroups, whose benefit boils down to, and anyway openrc supports cgroups ;) ( my 2 cents : and should be used in future versions of devuan ;)
>> when all the bullfeathers are removed, reaping zombies. Zombies were an >> irritation to all of us, but we've lived with them for 15 years, and >> their removal certainly doesn't justify a software V'ger. > > there is a bit more to cgroups than that but there is no reason another init > manager can't perform the same task without becoming The Blob. > > --Gravis > > On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Steve Litt <sl...@troubleshooters.com> > wrote: >> >> [Sorry Gravis, I could find no shorter way to say this] >> >> >> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 15:49:34 -0600 >> "T.J. Duchene" <t.j.duch...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > On Wed, 2015-02-25 at 13:11 -0800, Go Linux wrote: >> > > This excellent analysis of the systemd debacle was just posted over >> > > on FDN. Should be required reading IMO. Enjoy! >> > > >> > > http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652&p=570371 >> > > >> > > golinux >> > > >> > I must respectfully disagree. I find the analysis to be very biased >> > toward one side of the discussion, >> >> And the author tells us that. Now I'd like you to admit that you're >> very biased toward the other side of the discussion. I'm proud to say >> that I'm biased in the same direction as the author. So is the vast >> majority of this mailing list, whose project was created in order to >> choose one's init system without trashing the entire OS. >> >> > as well as creating their own >> > definitions to fit their side. >> > >> > If something replaces init, it is by definition "an init system". >> >> So then, if I replace your car's radio by replacing the whole car, it >> is by definition a "car radio"? >> >> > Whether it does more or less than the previous init is immaterial to >> > that simple fact. >> >> I find no credible element of truth in the preceding sentence. But >> anyway, disregarding the definition of "init system", the author is >> dead bang right on: >> >> * Debian isn't other distros >> * no one—has ever articulated a value proposition for systemd that >> adequately addresses its implementation costs. >> >> About "Debian isn't other distros", he characterized the situation >> exactly right, plus the fact that when Debian moved, all the Debian >> descendents moved with it (except a couple that were born to exclude >> systemd, like DNG). And, his assertion was even more right back in >> September, when many of the brains behind DNG were helping out with >> Debian. >> >> About value proposition vs cost: 90% of the value ennunciated by >> systemd fans boil down to "it boots faster", because any benefit >> achieved by socket activation and the like could be simulated by >> strategically placed sleep statements in any other init. And keep in >> mind that if boot speed and reliability are truly important to one, one >> would be unlikely to start the number and type of services that would >> be problematic to boot speed. AND, although I've gotten systemd to boot >> in 4 seconds on a spinning platter, it took 30 seconds after that to >> get into the Desktop Environment, because a lot of boot tasks including >> networking happened in the desktop environment. AND, I got Epoch to >> boot in 7 seconds, and runit to boot in 11 seconds, on the same >> hardware, and they both took less time to get to the GUI. >> >> The other 8% have to do with making the GUI responsive to changes in >> the system, and vice versa. Nice, but not essential, and not worth a 15 >> major component monolith tied together with thick, not well documented >> interfaces. Not only that, but there are plenty of other ways to get >> that feature without gumming up the system by eliminating advantages of >> interchangeable parts. >> >> That leaves the 2% benefit of cgroups, whose benefit boils down to, >> when all the bullfeathers are removed, reaping zombies. Zombies were an >> irritation to all of us, but we've lived with them for 15 years, and >> their removal certainly doesn't justify a software V'ger. >> >> SteveT >> >> Steve Litt * http://www.troubleshooters.com/ >> Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Dng mailing list >> Dng@lists.dyne.org >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
