Yup, I agree with you Kevin. The django framework is very powerful.
I started out with no webapp experience, and have also been able to
build a very nice web app using django. It took me considerably
longer than a week to come up to speed, but I had zero background in
html, css, sql, or web apps in general, so just understanding the
basics of the webapp handshakes and how to work in an environment
where I have no data structure state took me awhile to grock. My app
developed under django has such a nice symmetric, organized, feel. I
don't have any hands on experience with what webapp development is
like with out a framework like django, but I suspect it is a lot
messier. So I also feel like the dive in time ito learn some of the
underlying detais of django source is well worth it.
Margie
On May 1, 11:47 am, Kevin Audleman <kevin.audle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Malcom,
>
> Cheers to that.
>
> It's always hard to figure out what attitude you are conveying when
> you post to a message board so I don't know how I sound in this
> thread. Forgive me if I sound whiny or complainy, that is certainly
> not my intent. Quite the contrary, my overall attitude toward Django
> is that of pure awe. I've never worked with a framework that is so
> logical, consistent, and powerful. I picked up the basics in a week
> and suddenly feel empowered to create full-fledged web apps that can
> do complex queries, handle form submission with full input validation
> and cleaning, have a working security/permissions framework, etc.
> Three cheers, mate!
>
> I meant what I said about working with reverse url: complicated but
> worth the effort. What's going on behind the scenes is no doubt
> extremely complex, but the fact that I never have to hard-code a url
> is huge. I take it as a challenge to put all the pieces together
> myself.
>
> Kevin
>
> On May 1, 11:28 am, Malcolm Tredinnick <malc...@pointy-stick.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 2009-05-01 at 11:13 -0700, Kevin Audleman wrote:
>
> > > > I can't explain any of this, but I've been thinking about your
> > > > question since you posted it beause I know this type of error happens
> > > > to me a lot (and indeed has been hard to debug), but I couldn't put my
> > > > finger on remembering what my solution was. It just happened, I fixed
> > > > my syntax error, but still got reverseMatch error message. Restarted
> > > > the server, and it was gone.
>
> > > Truly, Margie, this is the most inexplicable part of Django for me
> > > too. I'll code up a template with a bunch of {% url app.view %}
> > > statements which will work just fine. Then at some point I make some
> > > change and *bam* I've got a reverse url lookup error. The solution is
> > > not always obvious either. As I wrote earlier in this thread, at one
> > > point I suddenly had to append the app name to the names of my url's
> > > in urls.py. They had been working just fine, then something I changed
> > > made them not work.
>
> > At which point, working out "what changed" would be useful so that (a)
> > you can avoid it next time and (b) if it's some kind of problem in
> > Django, we can fix it. There is almost no magic going on in these sorts
> > of situations.
>
> > Certainly the error reporting from some of the URL resolving is a little
> > weak and that's something we're going to fix at some point. Hopefully
> > before 1.1 comes out. So bear with us for a little while longer on that
> > front and, in the interim
>
> > > I agree that restarting the server is crucial. Don't know why, but it
> > > clears these types of things up.
>
> > Because there's a lot of internal caching going on. In particular, files
> > are imported once and then not imported again (since that would be
> > blindingly inefficient). URL configuration files are read once by each
> > process and the reverse lookups -- which take quite a bit of effort to
> > determine -- are cached so that we don't have to do the work every
> > single time.
>
> > It's fairly logical that if you change something you will have to tell
> > the code using that information that the on-disk versions have changed.
> > Sure, you don't have to worry about the "compile" part of a normal
> > development cycle when using Python very often, but there is some text
> > -> bytecode compilation going on, whether converting to .pyc files or
> > simply on the import into memory and there is other in-memory storage
> > taking place. The development server spoils people a bit in this
> > respect, in that it tries to detect a certain, fairly large class of
> > changes, but it cannot detect everything and isn't really a useful use
> > of development effort to make it do so.
>
> > > Oh well, every powerful mechanism is bound to be difficult to work
> > > with. I figure one of these days I'll *really* understand the
> > > structure of a Django app and these reverse url's will no longer
> > > plague me.
>
> > Definitely the right attitude! :-)
>
> > The more you persist, the better you get.
>
> > The primary audience for Django, although not very clearly defined, is
> > pretty much experienced programmers and web designers trying to get
> > things done quickly and are familiar with using it. It's a productivity
> > tool and time saver for doing things that you already understood. People
> > coming to Django as a new framework and a new programming language
> > (Python) and learning about HTML / Javascript / CSS and databases and
> > sysadmin and all the other bits and pieces are going to find there's a
> > lot to learn. That's only because there's a lot to learn. It's
> > practically impossible to write something that is both easy to learn for
> > people starting out and powerful enough to be a genuine aid to
> > experienced users and, historically, Django has been developed as an
> > aid, not an entry point -- which is why it's so genuinely useful in
> > profressional-grade products.
>
> > I have no idea what your experience is, historically, so I'm not
> > intending to label you here. I only want to point out that Django isn't
> > meant to necessarily be a shortcut to avoid understanding a broad swathe
> > of stuff. It can help you postpone learning about some things and gives
> > a nice way to learn about it, but it's an aid, not a crutch. We
> > obviously don't discourage people learning to use Django, Python, HTML
> > (insert list of stuff here...), as evidenced by this mailing list and
> > the IRC channel (well, setting simple good manners and patience issues
> > aside for now), but the implicit contract with the users is that people
> > starting out or at various points along the learning curve will progress
> > to the right, towards being more advanced users with deeper
> > understanding and we don't need to dumb down things to meet them on the
> > left side of the curve, which would harm the primary audience.
>
> > Regards,
> > Malcolm- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Django users" group.
To post to this group, send email to django-users@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
django-users+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
