There are some interesting points here, I look forward to the replies. --Jon
On 10/1/07, Stefan Matthias Aust <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Over the last few weeks, we used Django to successfully create > prototype applications and it just worked great (well, large file > upload is broken, I had to patch our Django version with #2070 a > couple of times). What a relieve compared to Java web development! A > big "thank you" to all developers and this friendly user group. > > However, to sell Django to my management for "real" applications, it > would be very helpful to have some kind of road map. We miss the > structure and guidance ;) > > I'll try to explain my feelings: > > There's no 0.97 version despites all that changes to SVN trunk for > months. The documentation clearly advertises the current trunk > version, but the book refers to 0.96. The django book project seems to > have died in Feb. The site does not explain why the missing chapters > where never written/published and what the current state is. > (Important) changes to the queryset API or admin UI are not applied in > favor to some branched development which seems to be ongoing for > months. No word on when it will hit the trunk. No word on when the > next Django version will be published. Or what it will contain. Bugs > like #2070 are open for more than a year. Of ~800 open tickets, 275 > need a design decision, that is need the attention of the core team. > There are still 12 tickets from the last sprint (great effort, BTW) > left to check-in. The casual observer easily gets the impression that > work is sporadic, uncoordinated and not target-oriented, in one word: > chaotic. > > While this is no problem in it self (and please do not feel offended, > that's not my intention), it makes it difficult to build products upon > that foundation. Is it useful to invest in the old admin UI? Or should > we go for the new one? When will the query API be improved (we need > aggregations, so I have to patch it)? Will there every be schema > evolution? > > A lot of open source projects switched to a time boxed release scheme > because that builds the most trust with users. If the Eclipse > foundation (for example) publishes its mile stone road map you can be > sure they will meet the date and release on time. IMHO one of the (not > so secret) secrets of their enormous success. > > The counter-example is the trac project which tells everybody that > they're now 3 months late with 0.11 and even have missed the next > milestone, too. This tells everybody "hey, we're not able to implement > a realistic schedule and are not even able to update our web page > after we learned that" ;) > > So, I'd recommend to create a realistic road map. Release every two or > three months. 0.96 or 0.97 communicates that it's almost done. That's > obviously not the case. Just increment a single number. Tell your > users when they can expect larger refactorings. If the problem is lack > of time, try to find sponsors. The current "it's done when it's done" > state of mind makes it difficult to invest in something we do not know > whether, when and how it will evolve. > > Should I manage to convince my management to continue using Django, I > should be able to dedicate one day per month to community work. That's > what I can offer in return to using the framework. > > [As a side note: I actually have to defend Python/Django against Ruby > on Rails because that's the "nextgen agil" framework even the > management heard about and, frankly, it feels much more mature. This > is another reason I'd like to have something more concrete than > Django's ticket system. I originally picked Django because teaching > and learning Python was much easier than teaching Ruby and the magic > of Rails.] > > One idea I was playing around in my mind was to create some kind of > "Django distribution", snapshotting the SVN version every month or so, > perhaps adding a few useful 3rd party libraries and creating a ready > to use and easily installable milestone version. That would be useful > for others too, I hope, but I do not want to fork or split the > development. However, I need some patches applied for our own work > faster than in the official version. > > I'd like to know whether others feel the same and would like to see > (and discuss) a focused road map or whether it's just me who cannot > appreciate the creativity of chaos ;) > > Thanks for reading my ramblings... > > -- > Stefan Matthias Aust > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django users" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-users?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
