Here's something I've been thinking about: As a rule, assuming that backends are not bug-riddled and do not have needlessly shoddy performance, nearly all of the value of an ORM is in the set of frontend features it exposes to application developers. Given a certain frontend API, then the only value in iterating the backend independently from the frontend is to fix uncaught bugs, or to improve performance, there's no value in adding features.
Also as a rule, adding features to a frontend independently from the backend has little value. Without an implementation in whatever backend you are on, it only serves as a guide for future backend development, so you might as well push for backends to catch up in the same release cycle. (Or the feature doesn't require backend support, but then it doesn't hurt to reversion the backend anyways). So basically, there's not much value in independently versioning and maintaining frontends and backends to the ORM. This is in contrast to, say, localflavor, where an improvement in Mongolian localization can immediately help every Mongolian website in every Django version. So this primary motivation for independent maintenance is not a factor in the ORM. Hence I think the core team should include as many backends as it can handle in core (where "handle" means test that they function properly for each release). Oracle had been slipping, but from what I understand it's now in the CI server and back to passing most tests. So I see no reason to split off backends unless the maintenance burden is such that they are chronically broken in every Django release. And every reason to add MSSQL unless the maintenance burden is too high. Best, Alex Ogier On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Erik Romijn <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi all, > > It seems to me we are mixing a few different discussions here: > 1. Should Django core have as few database backends as possible? > 1a. If yes, which ones should stay in Django core? > 2. What should we do, if anything, with the current situation where > it seems difficult to guarantee the quality of the Oracle backend? > 3. Should a MSSQL Django backend be included in Django core? > > Regarding question 1, I feel we should keep a fair set of backends, > like the current one, included in Django core. > > Yes, we could move them to separate projects. All the same arguments > apply here as why it's not necessarily good for a project to end up > in contrib. However, in theory any component of Django could be moved > out of core and be independently maintained. The whole ORM, the > templating system, the CSRF protection, and so on. I haven't seen any > reason why we should move the MySQL backend out, but not the templating > system. > > Besides that, the close integration and development of all these parts > is exactly the reason I like Django. When I download a version of Django, > or upgrade, I know that all components in there will work well together. > I can run my site on any of the supported databases, and they will all > work together with the provided admin. I can build forms on the models > I build with the ORM. The forms will nicely fit in with the templates. > > When I started using Django, I had looked at several alternatives which > were more modular. However, they required me to make tons of choices, > each involving numerous consequences. If I picked ORM A, I could have > databases X, Y and Z, but no admin. For the admin I had to use ORM B, > but that did not support database Z or many to many fields. And so on. > When I tried Django, it was a relief to see I could download a single > package, and everything would just work together. > > If we move database backends out of core, my big concern is that > the same will happen there. This is fine for many components we use > in many Django projects - but not for something as fundamental as the > database backend. When the admin doesn't work on any of the officially > supported backends, that should be a release blocker for Django itself, > because I think it will be a blocker for the users. > > Regarding question 2, Oracle support, I think a great step forward has > been made with the addition of Oracle to the Django continuous > integration setup. That alone should help us improve the consistent > quality of Oracle support. > > cheers, > Erik > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
