On Friday, October 5, 2012 3:17:02 PM UTC+2, Moonlight wrote: > > What is wrong with hello world application if you are testing web > application stack? >
I Moonlight (or maybe Andriy ?). Some thoughts : 1. Don't be directly involved in a product you are benchmarking against. that's bad ; 2. Make a relevant bench for the conclusion you are claiming. Print "Hello world" is not a benchmark to say a framework is faster than another one. Look at graphical card benchs. They don't display just a rotating cube at very low resolution with 4 colors ; 3. Be scientifically rigorous. Every framework make stuff under the hood when you initialize a project that you can't disregard because the impact is high. Stacks and hooks (auth, session, localization) that can be tuned (or not) in your project settings for instance. So the same "Hello World" (which is only the tip of the fucking iceberg) can run 100 times faster according to your settings. The problem with Hello World is that it is way too simple, an insignificant parameter in the numerous/heterogenous/significant other parameters. It's like trying to work out the best cyclist with a 100m rush with very different kind of bike plus a backpack of different weights. That's why we have *Le tour de France*. Put some weight on what you test in order to outweigh other parameters. I do not say that this bench is absolutely useless. It can be used to show a regression, a bug, test the Apache stack. Not to make framework comparisons. > Choosing framework X over Y doesn't guarantee any success to project. Good > thing to know your framework has a limit... that also tells me how > effective one or other implemented... I guess it tells that. > > I have had no idea until recently that django template are sooo slow... > other engines do the same... but spent less time. What the cool feature > prevent it for rendering it faster? > I think this is not a scoop<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/django-developers/cQWfKuX5byk>that Django template engine is not the fastest and you are free to use another one.<http://lethain.com/replacing-django-s-template-language-with-jinja2/> But I would like to say, if you are in a serious business, don't give a fuck. This is the last reason to fail a real-life project and a pretty low-benefit optimization <http://www.codeirony.com/?p=9>. Ok, this is important, but don't over-estimate it. By the way, I had the curiosity to take a look at Python ML entry<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2012-September/631384.html>which is called "Fastest web framework" and I the Wheezy framework <http://pypi.python.org/pypi/wheezy.web/0.1.304>. The cache api<http://packages.python.org/wheezy.http/userguide.html#content-cache>- for instance - is not something I would call well designed and useable : @response_cache(none_cache_profile) def change_price(request): ... with cache_factory() as cache dependency = CacheDependency('list_of_goods') dependency.delete(cache) return response Is it working code ? where does the returned response come from and how does the 3 lines above can impact it ? If you want to turn off the cache you have to change all that logical code, not just the @decorator, right ? Seriously, dude. If you try to sell your business, this is not the right way and not the right place, so maybe this should continue on Python Mailing list (or not). Stan. > > On Thursday, October 4, 2012 5:14:43 PM UTC+3, Stan wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, October 4, 2012 9:50:35 AM UTC+2, Moonlight wrote: >>> >>> I found the following benchmarks recently: >>> 1. http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/09/python-fastest-web-framework.html >>> 2. http://mindref.blogspot.com/2012/07/python-fastest-template.html >>> >>> It is interesting to see the performance boost using pypy. >>> >> >> >> I still can't see why people wast so much time in such biased "Hello >> world" tests to claim a definitive "X is the fastest Python web Framework." >> Are the Hello world applications are strictly the same (sessions, auth >> etc) ? >> >> Anyway, there are so many ways to fail a project and the reason is never >> on the pseudo-helloworld benchmark bad results. Database optimization, ORM, >> API quality, documentation, libraries, security. >> Does your framework allow users to deliver in a limited time ? That is >> the true question. >> >> Stanislas. >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/django-developers/-/aFq1kZhTe9QJ. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en.
