On Tue, 07 May 2002 11:44:33 +0200 "Ben Hetland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On Wed, 1 May 2002 00:17:34 -0400, "James K.Lowden"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I propose: Leave the feature on. Reverse dragging selects
> > intersecting objects, and Forward dragging does not. If the user
> > holds down a Shift or Ctrl key, the opposite happens: Forward dragging
> > selects intersecting objects, and Reverse dragging does not.
>
> Why such an inconsistent behavior?
>
> FWIW, I often find myself confusing the different kind of shift/ctrl/alt
> combinations, especially when there are multiple functionalites
> "embedded" in them, like one for "unshifted", one for "shift", one for
> "ctrl", another one for "ctrl-shift", etc... Consistent behavior helps
Agreed. Mnemonic power -- i.e., what's "intuitive" in any one person's
mind -- comes from either clear labeling ("backspace", "Caps Lock"), or
widespread implementation (F1 for Help).
There's nothing in the meaning of the word "control", for instance, to
connote much of anything about what a mouse operation will do. And I'm
not aware of any commonplace use of the ctrl key to modify the behavior of
rubberbanding (which is what we're really talking about here, not
dragging), except that it might affect *something*. As long as we don't
lean on it too heavily, as long as it merely adds some convenience in a
non-intrusive, non-destructive way, I think it's a bonus.
> One example: The Windows Explorer that so many of us know, enables you
> to drag files and folders around (w/left button).
Right. It doesn't meet the "non-intrusive, non-destructive" test. Get it
wrong, and you either have an extra file where you don't want it or no
file where you do. And you might not notice. Even people who use Windows
every day get bitten sooner or later by that misfeature, because
eventually everyone loses track (as well they ought) of what dangblammed
drive letter the file is on.
When looking for metaphors and best practices, it's well to avoid anything
Microsoft does that isn't widely imitated or otherwise commonly
understood. They have the most widely used GUI in the world, and anything
that hasn't caught on isn't a hidden gem: it's an exposed wart.
> Of course, NOT being a CAD user, this has perhaps the opposite effect on
> me, not necessarily making the connection between the objects that were
> selected versus "which direction did I just drag?"... I would just
> probably discover it accidentally, thinking it was some strange bug or
> something that "glitched" to include some extra objects I didn't intend
> to... This of course assumes I didn't read the manual first, explaining
> this feature very carefully to me... :-)
You won't forget which way you were going. You'll get clear feedback (per
Lars) on what's being selected, and pretty soon you're going to notice
that going north & west behaves a little differently from south & east.
You might think it's a bug, but a bug is behavior in exception to the
documentation, and a quick RTFM will solve that. You might discover the
ctrl key toggle. And I think you're going to do all that very quickly,
probably during your first Dia session.
I can see why someone would call my suggested behavior "inconsistent". I
think it's good, though, that NW and SE dragging behave differently: you
get two selection metaphors while leaving your left hand in your lap, plus
a toggle in case one is in your way at some point.
What I think should be unnecessary is a whole paragraph in the manual
explaining how "reverse dragging" works, and a couple of other places
about how to turn it on and off.
> I'm putting myself deliberately in the mind of the most silly user right
> now, of course... It's really an enjoyable discussion, hope you don't
> mind!
Ben, it's not my list. I plopped my opinions out there for consideration
or mockery in the hope they might further discussion. If I'm going to
convert a preference to a fixed behavior, I'd better give people a chance
to say their peace. As long as our little discussion isn't total noise to
everyone else, it seems to me that's why the list is here: to talk about
Dia. Who knows? We might even come up with a good idea, or even a good
design principle. No harm in trying, at any rate, eh?
Regards,
--jkl
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