On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 12:11 AM, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolli...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi John > > On 3 March 2010 15:20, John lewis <johnlewis.h...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi bob, > > the system generated ID is to one way to identify the case or person. > using > > orgunit you mean the code for that organization unit. In india they have > > generated a 16 digit ID based on Country, Province,District,Sub-district > and > > facility. but the problem with this is what happen if new district > > or province is created. In norway the personal id number is > > ddmmyy+sex+random number. I thougth we cloud use the same but increasing > the > > random number to avoid the duplicate. > > I think this is a national id number. In Norway they do indeed use > the national ID number as a patient ID. And, believe it or not, > Norway does not follow best practice in this area. They do it > probably because it was convenient and they started doing it at a time > before anyone really took much time to think about it. The hazard of > early adoption in the information age. They are not the only country > which now finds itself in this position. > > I've mentioned a few times on this list that national identifiers are > not always suitable for use as patient identifiers. That they are > frequently coerced for this use is now broadly understood to be a > common but bad practice, largely because the requirements of national > ids are not generally the same as requirements for patient ids. There > are a lot of references out there on what these requirements are - I > think myself and Saptarshi have provided some links to literature on > the subject. Just googled this one fresh for example > ( > http://books.google.com/books?id=X0JeKx8-J0cC&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=norway+patient+identifier&source=bl&ots=6C8eZlwxLb&sig=zTY4mpmxpNtvGGz-hssv3KVEQh8&hl=en&ei=F46OS7KHEJO7jAfZocDpAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CB8Q6AEwBA > ) > coz it mentions Norway - what a horrible url - and not a great > article. You can I'm sure access better quality stuff through the > university. > > In the case of India, where they are now designing a national ID from > scratch, they might have taken this issue into account - ie they have > the benefit of hindsight that the identifier might (read it always > happens!) be used for many purposes beyond what may have been its > original intent. So the ID could be useful if encoded on a card or > something, but the downside being that very few people are going to > memorize it if it has many random digits. Alphanumerics can help keep > it shorter. > > I'm not sure if I get your concern about provinces and districts > changing etc. Using a similar scheme but based on facility+unique > string a patient would only really need to commit to memory the unique > string part in 95% of cases. She would only need the full number with > prefix part when visiting a different facility at which point it would > be useful to have the full number on a card, file or what have you. > But even then, if she remembered the facility that she got it from, it > could be reasonably reconstructed. > > I can sympathize with the desire for simplicity and I think we should > strive for a simple solution. But given that is widely accepted that > encoding the birthdate and gender in a patient id is a bad practice I > don't think it is wise to roll-out a new personal identification > system like this. To me it might indicate a certain amateurism and > lack of familiarity with the literature which could reflect badly on > the project. Particularly as you are undergoing your security review. > I also do know that the openmrs guys have really put a lot of thought > into this. > > So my warning would be if you go ahead with birthdates and gender you > should be prepared to be hammered from all sides. > > Cheers > Bob > > I think we can take a look at here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identification_numberto see how countries in the world dealing with this problem. While putting birthdate in the ID is considered as a violence of privacy, most of countries use it in their national ID systems. They might do thing wrong? ID system, as I perceive, is very similar to a infrastructure with its installed based. Addressing it is not the problem of good or bad but what the current situation is and how to build upon that, I think. Thanh > >And its also useful that the person > > dont have to remember all the 16 or 14 digit number. for the sake of > > simplicity we used this method. > > John > > > > On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Bob Jolliffe <bobjolli...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> Hi > >> > >> On 3 March 2010 12:20, Viet Nguyen <phamquocv...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > > >> > Hi, > >> > > >> > Just a quick update about Patient registration form functionality : > >> > > >> > * Check duplicate : > >> > > >> > This function allow user to check for existing patient base on : name > , > >> > birthdate, age, gender > >> > > >> > If there is duplicate patient, a pop up will be showed, with the list > of > >> > all > >> > the duplicated patients. > >> > > >> > From this pop up, user can have two options : > >> > > >> > Continue create the current patient. So there will be two patients > with > >> > the > >> > same information like above. But their identifiers must be different > >> > which > >> > will be checked later. > >> > User can choose a patient from the list duplicated patient to update > >> > information for him, by click on the button "Update this patient" that > >> > follow by each patient in the list. User will then be redirected to > the > >> > Update Patient page. > >> > > >> > * Under age patient : > >> > > >> > Under age patient can be understand as a child. The purpose of this > >> > field is > >> > not to hard code the age to define a child, like age < 5 or age < > 15. > >> > > >> > In the registration form, there is a check box named " Is Underage" . > >> > User > >> > check on this check box to identify the patient is a child. A pop up > >> > will > >> > be showed after clicking. > >> > > >> > The purpose of this pop up is : user must choose a representative for > >> > this > >> > child. Because , some identifiers that are mandatory ( can be > defined > >> > in > >> > Patient Identifier Type management page ) . But a child can not have > >> > those > >> > identifier, so we have to inherit those identifier from the child's > >> > representative. > >> > > >> > Not all identifier can be inherited, you can defined a > >> > PatientIdentiferType > >> > is able to inherit or not when creating it. The field name is > >> > "Related" > >> > ... ( God ...why didn't I use" Inheritable" .... ) . > >> > > >> > If a PatientIdentifierType with "related" = FALSE and "mandatory" = > TRUE > >> > then user must enter value for it. > >> > > >> > Ok, back to the popup, there are two tabs : > >> > > >> > Search existing person : user can search for an existing patient in > >> > system > >> > to be the representative of the child. > >> > Add new person : said this is person, because this is not really a > >> > patient, > >> > this person is just giving identifier...not enrolling to any program, > at > >> > least at this step. Of course the record is also saved to the patient > >> > table. > >> > The form just only include basic information ( name , birthdate, > >> > gender.. ) > >> > and Identifiers. No attributes is needed. Of course user can update > >> > attributes for this person later by the Update Patient page. > >> > > >> > One problem in this function that I can not have enough time to do : > >> > > >> > In the combo box Relationship Type, there should be Parent and > Guardian, > >> > I > >> > hard coded this. You should create two relationship type with this > >> > information before testing this function : > >> > > >> > A is to B : Guardian, B is to A : Child > >> > A is to B : Parent , B is to A : Child. > >> > > >> > The list of relationship type should be get from the Relationship type > >> > table. But if we put everything to the combo box, then user may choose > >> > Husband, Wife, or even child...which is so wrong. > >> > > >> > My plan is creating an object RelationshipGroup, which should be based > >> > on > >> > the age... > >> > > >> > Anyway, because we are late for releasing this version in India. so > hard > >> > code for now is the only solution. I will continue working on this, so > >> > ...please don't worry... > >> > > >> > * System generated identifier : > >> > > >> > I looked at the id_gen module from OpenMRS. Well , they have a whole > >> > module > >> > for this which has many functionality for manage system auto generated > >> > identifier. > >> > > >> > I can not have enough time for getting all of that. So what I did is > >> > just > >> > get a piece of code that is used for generate a check digit for the > ID. > >> > > >> > The format that Indian team chose is : > >> > [BirthDate][Gender][XXXXXX][checkdigit] > >> > >> Encoding the birthdate and gender into a patient identifier is > >> considered bad practice. Using the orgunit+random digits would be > >> much better. It shouldn't matter if the patient "migrates". The > >> number was simply issued by a particular facility. > >> > >> Regards > >> Bob > >> > >> > > >> > BirthDate : yyyyMMdd > >> > Gender : Male = 1 ; Female = 0 > >> > XXXXXX : a random number with length = 6 ( 0 - 999999 ) > >> > checkdigit : generated using Luhn Algorithm ( thanks to OpenMRS guys > ) > >> > > >> > I also changed the way that Abyot generate the birthdate from age ( > when > >> > user only enter age ) . > >> > It is : todayCalendar.add( Calendar.YEAR, -1 * age ); > >> > What Abyot did is > >> > todayCalendar.set( Calendar.DATE, 1 ); > >> > todayCalendar.set( Calendar.MONTH, Calendar.JANUARY ); > >> > todayCalendar.add( Calendar.YEAR, -1 * age ); > >> > Because we generate the id base on birthdate , get current date should > >> > be > >> > better. > >> > Hope this is ok for Abyot.... > >> > > >> > Each country will have different formats...so I think for current we > >> > just > >> > can change code when implementing in the country. Building a module > for > >> > this > >> > would take time.... > >> > > >> > Finally, but almost those things only follow India 's requirements. > >> > Please give comment then we can try to make it more generic... > >> > > >> > Regards, > >> > > >> > Viet Nguyen > >> > > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Mailing list: > >> https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs<https://launchpad.net/%7Edhis2-devs> > >> Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net > >> Unsubscribe : > >> https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs<https://launchpad.net/%7Edhis2-devs> > >> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: > https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs<https://launchpad.net/%7Edhis2-devs> > Post to : dhis2-devs@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : > https://launchpad.net/~dhis2-devs<https://launchpad.net/%7Edhis2-devs> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > -- Best regards, Thanh ------------------- Center for HIS development 957, 3/2 st., Dist 11, Hochiminh city Tel: 08-956 0150 Cell: 098 221 8623 --------------------
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