Hi Jim, I hope my text didn’t give the impression the decision was in my hands alone ;-) As this is a community project, we need to convince others of this opinion or find a different compromise.
There is an open issue in the updater repo https://github.com/owncloud/updater/issues/183 But I miss a repository for issues concerning the general practices and organisational input. Where could this discussion take place? @Frank Karlitschek? Thomas > On 15 Nov 2015, at 15:45, jimkn...@gmx.org wrote: > > Hi Thomas, > > thank you for the explanation, I agree with you in all respects. Looking > forward to some changes :-) > > Regards > Jim > > > > >> Am 14.11.2015 um 20:09 schrieb Thomas Ebert <thomas.eb...@te-online.net >> <mailto:thomas.eb...@te-online.net>>: >> >> Hi! >> >> @Jim Knopf: In an attempt to answer your question directed @all (from my >> personal point of view!): >> >> I think the current practice is based on a (probably outdated) conception of >> »user-roles«. It seems that there is the role of the tech-savvy users who >> unquestionable update their ownClouds via command line or manually. And then >> there are those »endusers« which are at the same time administrators, simply >> because they don’t have access to a »proper« system administrator (e.g. they >> are normally not concerned with administration tasks and are hosting their >> ownCloud on shared hosting without anyone’s personal help.) The updater app >> seems to be targeted at the latter. >> >> Personally, I agree that this practice is not really helpful for anyone, >> besides the fact that those imaginary user-roles probably not exist. The >> only consistent action would be now to make updates instantly available via >> the updater app after release. For which other reason do we have the >> different channels? »Real life« tests should be run with non-stable >> releases. Now »tests« are run by users who do not use the updater app and >> who are currently playing the role as pre-testers for those who use the app, >> in which I can see no logic motivation. >> >> Concerning the texts in the update app: A few weeks ago, we worked on making >> the texts more comprehensible and shorter at the same time to deliver only >> the information that is actually needed. And the quoted »Testing is >> everything« was removed in the last version. (See >> https://github.com/owncloud/updater/pull/180 >> <https://github.com/owncloud/updater/pull/180>). As stated before I agree >> with you that upon release the testing should be completed. Otherwise you >> can’t call it a stable release. >> >> I am not sure who is actually in charge of »pressing the red button« each >> time, aka publishing the updates to the official channel that the app uses. >> Maybe @Frank could help us out with this question? However, this person has >> to make the decision of the »release date« on some basis, right? So maybe >> can create a more solid basis for this decision – like proposed: A week >> after release the release will also be available in the app. Or – as I think >> it would be suitable – instantly upon release the updater channel gets the >> new version as well. >> >> Thomas >> >> >> >> >> >> –– >> Thomas Ebert >> Interaction Design >> – >> thomas.eb...@te-online.net <mailto:thomas.eb...@te-online.net> >> www.te-online.net <http://www.te-online.net/> >> – >> +49 2553 977324 >> +49 152 28633423 >> – >> >>> Am 12.11.2015 um 23:19 schrieb jimkn...@gmx.org <mailto:jimkn...@gmx.org>: >>> >>> @Frank: Now I am offered version 8.1.4.2 on all channels except „nightly“. >>> >>> @all, >>> >>> so far, no one has answered my question, so I want to rephrase it: Why do >>> you think that the admin can not be enabled to update via web interface as >>> soon as the new version is available? I am the admin of my OC installation, >>> and must decide when I can and want to update my installation. I do not >>> understand why there is a delay for the web interface when the update is >>> already released and publicly available. „Testing is everything“ can not be >>> the answer. If you release a new version that is not beta or an RC, then >>> the time for testing is over. >>> >>> Then again I want to raise the problem of security - if you release a new >>> version, usually it contains a lot of security fixes. Those are public >>> knowledge as soon as the new sources and the release notes are on the >>> server. This is all well and fine if I update as soon as possible, but your >>> practice forces me over and over again to take to the console. Which I can >>> handle, but then why did you bother to implement the update function in the >>> web interface? >>> >>> Besides, „a few days“ has now been „a few weeks“, and if you care to take a >>> look into the OC forums, this issue is raised with almost every update. >>> This is in no way clear or consistend from my point of view. >>> >>> Regards >>> Jim Knopf >>> >>> >>> >>>> Am 12.11.2015 um 22:58 schrieb Jan-Christoph Borchardt <j...@owncloud.com >>>> <mailto:j...@owncloud.com>>: >>>> >>>> In the updater app it says: >>>> »Testing is everything: Therefore updates will be available here within a >>>> few days after the announcement.« >>>> Can we be more clear there? >>>> >>>> In addition I agree, the »few days« should be consistent. >>>> >>>> >>>> mark.zieg...@rakekniven.de <mailto:mark.zieg...@rakekniven.de> – Thu., 12. >>>> November 2015 17:40 >>>>> Hello Frank, >>>>> >>>>> the time from release to availability for integrated updater is lacking >>>>> communication. >>>>> Time is different each release. >>>>> >>>>> IMHO you should announce it on e.g. twitter, mailinglist and other >>>>> channels. >>>>> And there should be a default delay from release to auto updater e.g. 2 >>>>> weeks. >>>>> >>>>> There has been conversations in the forums as well regarding update >>>>> strategy. >>>>> >>>>> Is there an official statement somewhere about the delay? >>>>> Would be helpful to answer questions like "why is my ownCloud not >>>>> offering latest release" with answers like "please look at your cloud in >>>>> about a week. Maybe update will be available at that time...". >>>>> >>>>> Have a good time. >>>>> ownCloud rocks! >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Mark >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Zitat von Frank Karlitschek <fr...@owncloud.com >>>>> <mailto:fr...@owncloud.com>>: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> 3.1.4 should now be available in the updater. (After a few minutes > of >>>>>> cache ttl cleanups) >>>>>> Please let me know if something is not working. >>>>>> >>>>>> Frank >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 12, 2015, at 13:19, Joas Schilling >> >>>>>>> <nickverges...@owncloud.com <mailto:nickverges...@owncloud.com>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Jim, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> notified the people in charge directly, hopefully it will get resolved >>>>>>> soon. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers joas >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am 10.11.2015 um 19:30 schrieb jimkn...@gmx.org >>>>>>> <mailto:jimkn...@gmx.org>: >>>>>>>> Hello everybody, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would like to raise a question/a requirement regarding the >>> >>>>>>>> update of OC via admin panel and propose to make updates here >>> >>>>>>>> available as soon as they are published on owncloud.org >>>>>>>> <http://owncloud.org/>. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The reasons: In v8.1.3 (the one I am using), I have four different >>>>>>>> >>> types of update to choose from (produktion, stable, beta and >>> >>>>>>>> nightly), but neither offers me an update to 8.1.4 or 8.2 (as of >>> >>>>>>>> this writing). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I see no reason and indeed do not understand why I am forced to do >>>>>>>> >>> a manual update. And I am forced to do this, because otherwise, my >>>>>>>> >>> OC instance would be exposed to many security bugs that are >>> >>>>>>>> publicly known as soon as a new release is available on the website. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>>> Jim Knopf >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Devel mailing list >>>>>>>> Devel@owncloud.org <mailto:Devel@owncloud.org> >>>>>>>> mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel >>>>>>>> <http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Devel mailing list >>>>>>> Devel@owncloud.org <mailto:Devel@owncloud.org> >>>>>>> mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel >>>>>>> <http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Devel mailing list >>>>> Devel@owncloud.org <mailto:Devel@owncloud.org> >>>>> mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel >>>>> <http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Devel mailing list >>>> Devel@owncloud.org <mailto:Devel@owncloud.org> >>>> http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel >>>> <http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Devel mailing list >>> Devel@owncloud.org <mailto:Devel@owncloud.org> >>> http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel >>> <http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel@owncloud.org <mailto:Devel@owncloud.org> >> http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > > _______________________________________________ > Devel mailing list > Devel@owncloud.org > http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
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