Please accept my apologies. My initial post was sufficient to make my point.
On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Stephen Gallagher <sgall...@redhat.com> wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2014-12-22 at 11:57 -0800, Gerald B. Cox wrote: > > > > On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Stephen John Smoogen > > <smo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > No they do not have all the information needed. What they know > > is that some other distribution ships it and that it works in > > a device using a custom kernel. How does it work on a normal > > drive, how does it not work, how are the tools functioning > > with the toolset, what extra patchsets need to be found and > > gotten to make sure what is in the kernel actually works as > > well as it does in say the Nexus 9. > > > > Oy Vey! This isn't a space shuttle launch. If no one else was using > > this, that would be another thing. You're also making up rules that > > weren't applied to other products which are included in Fedora; and > > asking for Q/A theater to obfuscate. You can try to spin it another > > way, but most people aren't buying it. > > Gerald, please moderate your tone. You are discouraging people from > listening to you. > > To be clear, I'd like to use a car metaphor (because that's what we do, > right?) to help you recognize your behavior, that you might learn from > it and be more helpful in the future: > > You drive your brand-new minivan up to the local racetrack. You hop out > of the driver's seat and walk up to the nearest mechanic. You say to > this mechanic "Hey, I just heard that over in Raceville they have a guy > that put a Hemi in a Sienna. Stick one in my van over there and I'll > race it." The mechanic stares at you, confused. He says to you "I don't > have any experience performing that sort of operation, nor do I have the > tools. And it's not a set of skills I can see being widely useful, so > it's not worth my time to learn how and buy the equipment to do it." > Meanwhile, you get angry and complain that "Well, the other guys can do > it, so you must be able to do it too!" > > (Of course, in that metaphor, I'm assuming you're *at least* going to > offer to pay the mechanic to do the work. When you came in here and made > your demands, it was strongly implied that you expected someone to > expend their own time and money to please you, which is also not a good > way to encourage people to do what you want.) > > > > > Now, you are misunderstanding the level of effort necessary to get > certain features into Fedora. It's comparatively easy to get a new > application added to the distribution because it's self-contained. If it > doesn't work, it will have no impact outside of itself. > > Traveling further down the stack, you start getting into packages that > are required dependencies for other packages (such as Django or Rails). > These require at least an order of magnitude more care and feeding > because of the number of other packages that depend on them. It takes a > more committed individual to include that in the distribution. > > Now let's go a little further down the stack to the platform layer. Now > we have things like the python platform and glibc. These are packages > that are depended on by thousands of other packages. Maintaining any one > of these is likely to be the full-time job of at least one person (and > likely a whole team of them). > > Now let's go even further down to the kernel (and specifically, the > filesystem layer). We are now at pretty much the absolute lowest level. > Everything on your installed system depends on this working and with no > critical issues. This is the full-time job of dozens of people, with > specialists in certain particular drivers. The filesystem layer is > extremely fundamental, as bugs in that layer usually mean that data is > lost or performance is unacceptable. This causes far-reaching issues. > That's the reason that everything that goes into the kernel is *very* > carefully vetted and tested. Well, most of the time; to use the specific > example you cited earlier in this thread, btrfs went in far before it > was ready because the btrfs developers committed to dealing with the > fallout. The btrfs developers have repeatedly and publicly stated that > btrfs is not production-ready (regardless of what certain other distros > claim) and Fedora is wise to listen. > > F2FS is perfectly welcome in Fedora, as long as a sufficient set of > people are willing to do the stabilization and testing work necessary > for that inclusion. Demanding that a feature you want must be in the > distribution is not only unhelpful, it's actually insulting to all of > the people who work hard to see that Fedora is both leading *and* > actually stable for use. If you are not capable of maintaining it, then > your best bet would be to go to the *upstream* developers of F2FS and > ask *them* to volunteer to maintain the driver in Fedora. That would > have a far higher chance of success than ranting on the Fedora lists. > > > > -- > devel mailing list > devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct >
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