On 07/10/2011 04:20 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 03:15:33PM -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
On Sun, 2011-07-10 at 16:32 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 05:46:18AM -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
The big kernel lock doesn't suck. It's the way SMP UNIX did things for
dozens of years, and it's the way countless kernel hackers know and
love. "Sucks" might be true from the point of view of "hey look at this
great fine-grained locking I just designed", but it's very much not true
from the poit of the driver author working on the weekend who's just
thinking "gee, what the heck is going on, why won't this just work how
it has done for the past twenty years?". In other words "suck" depends
on viewpoint.
I get your analogy, and your point. But there's a key difference. In the
kernel community (which is relatively much smaller), there are
established well documented means by which people find out about things
like BKL removal and act upon it. There is LWN, there is LKML, there is
an expectation that those working on the kernel read these things.
We have documentation and we have release notes. There's an expectation
that admins pay attention to these things.
There should not be, and there is not, an expectation that Linux users
and admins in the wider world follow distribution mailing lists, wiki
pages, and IRC obsessively. Or read blogs. That isn't how it's done.
It's done through slow, gradual change picked up over time, unless you
want the kind of pain that I believe is coming further down the line.
The systemd transition hasn't been rapid, and what we're talking about
here is a change in best practices rather than a change in what's
possible. Your systemd service file can launch a shell script that execs
the daemon. You can stick with a SysV init file instead. But both
approaches change nothing regarding the intrinsic fragility of sourcing
a freeform shell script as application configuration.
Again you say best practices - where is this written, only in the minds of
people pushing systemd.
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Stephen Clark
*NetWolves*
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