Hi On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 2:00 PM Daniel P. Berrangé <berra...@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 07, 2022 at 01:38:17PM +0400, Marc-André Lureau wrote: > > Hi > > > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2022 at 1:16 PM Daniel P. Berrangé <berra...@redhat.com> > > wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Feb 04, 2022 at 05:20:31PM +0400, Marc-André Lureau wrote: > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 8:18 PM Kevin Kofler via devel < > > > > devel@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > For the record: > > > > > > > > > > https://www.msys2.org/docs/environments/#msvcrt-vs-ucrt states: > > > > > > MSVCRT […] Works out of the box on every Microsoft Windows > versions. > > > > > > > > > > This is not entirely true. MSVCRT.DLL was introduced in Windows 95 > OSR > > > 2. > > > > > The original Windows 95, with or without the only service pack > released > > > > > for > > > > > it (SP1, because OSR 2 was not released as a service pack, only as > an > > > "OEM > > > > > service release" for new computers), shipped only the even older > > > > > CRTDLL.DLL > > > > > (which MinGW stopped supporting years ago) out of the box, > MSVCRT.DLL > > > had > > > > > to > > > > > be installed through a redistributable (which was included with > many > > > > > applications including Microsoft Office, but it was not part of the > > > > > operating system). > > > > > > > > > > But yes, for Windows releases ≥ 95 OSR 2 and < 10 (and no, Windows > > > version > > > > > numbers are not anywhere near monotonic ;-) ), MSVCRT is included > out > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > box, UCRT is not. Is it really a good default to depend on a > runtime > > > > > library > > > > > that is only included in Windows ≥ 10? > > > > > > > > > > > > > This proposal doesn't change the default. Although we can discuss > whether > > > > deprecating msvcrt support in Fedora-MinGW would make sense today. > > > > > > There's a variety of sites claiming to have stats on different > > > Windows versions. They all show Windows 10 with the majority, > > > but disagree on just how much older stuff still gets used. As > > > one example though, this shows Windows 7 with 12 % and > > > Windows 8.1 on 3 %. That 15% is too significant to declare > > > that MSVCRT is deprecated yet. > > > > > > > > > > https://gs.statcounter.com/windows-version-market-share/desktop/worldwide/ > > > > > > FYI, UCRT can be installed on various Windows: > > > https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/update-for-universal-c-runtime-in-windows-c0514201-7fe6-95a3-b0a5-287930f3560c > > Can be done automatically by the application's own MSI/NSIS installer ? > Requiring the users to do that separately is not desirable. > Those are MSU, they can be installed with wusa.exe. From NSIS should be trivial. With WiX, MsuPackage (not supported by wixl atm) or CustomAction. > > > We should also look at the cost/benefit for Fedora to ship and maintain > > MSVCRT environments. > > Or we could look at the cost/benefit of adding UCRT to Fedora, since > that's the change being proposed in this thread. In this thread > > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/mi...@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/6G2EAKYSNWMLDBWZ2BYQS3BEIRKJ2EEG/ > > you're proposing that Fedora stop shipping any mingw packages at all, > and just rely on MSys2 to do the packaging work. If that is the desired > solution, is it actually a benefit to spend any effort adding -ucrt64 > sub-RPMs to every mingw package in Fedora today ? > If the msys2 solution works, then there isn't much benefit shipping mingw*-packages, except for what Sandro said, to sync the Fedora native and windows versions. -- Marc-André Lureau
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