On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 10:58 AM, Matthias Clasen <mcla...@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2016-06-01 at 09:59 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > > > > > This paints a very specific premise of what a "logout" is, and I'm > > not > > sure I agree with it. There are actually many cases where I want to > > use > > resources on systems I have accounts on without specifically being > > logged in — the login session is just a connection in to manage > > things. > > > > Otherwise, we should remove user crontabs, at, and similar. And > > there > > are definitely some systems where that policy has a place, but I > > don't > > see it making sense as Fedora default, either system wide or for any > > of > > the Editions. > > > > Explicitly marking things to escape the session (nohup, crontab, > starting system services, etc) is very different from just leaking any > and all non-terminating processes out of the session. > > I am very much in favor of systemd enforcing that the session actually > ends when I log out, so that I don't accidentally leave processes > running. Leaking session processes have been a perennial problem that > we have been battling forever (gconf, ibus, pulseaudio, the list goes > on...). And they are causing actual problems, from preventing re-login > to subtly breaking the next session to slowing down shutdown. > > That doesn't mean that you can't have user crontabs. As Lennart says, > using those mechanisms should ideally be a privileged operation (with a > lenient policy on single-user systems). > > > Matthias > -- > Why should the policy only be lenient on single-user systems? Even if I accept for the moment that letting a user keep processes running on a system when they log out should be considered "privileged", this is a privilege that has more or less always been granted to users by default. Why do we suddenly need to change the default? Sure, providing functionality to *remove* that privilege from a user as necessary is a nice feature. But I would strongly be opposed to the distribution suddenly changing the status quo here without good reason. Ben Rosser
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