I’ll pour another cup of tea to that.
- Bret
________________________________
From: Desimone, Nathaniel L <nathaniel.l.desim...@intel.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:02:49 PM
To: r...@edk2.groups.io <r...@edk2.groups.io>; Bret Barkelew
<bret.barke...@microsoft.com>; devel@edk2.groups.io <devel@edk2.groups.io>;
spbro...@outlook.com <spbro...@outlook.com>; ler...@redhat.com
<ler...@redhat.com>; Kinney, Michael D <michael.d.kin...@intel.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [edk2-devel] [edk2-rfc] GitHub Pull Request based Code
Review Process
Hi Bret,
To be completely fair, I think we are splitting hairs on details here. I think
both of us are in 90% agreement, and we are both passionate enough about our
work to argue that last 10% to the grave.
I totally understand the desire for bisectability by the way. TianoCore is a
huge codebase, the core modules have several extremely large functions, and
very little in the way of explicit documentation. It has taken me years to
learn how this beast works. I think it is possible to not squash every patch
series and still maintain bisectability.
For example, your VariablePolicy patch series; we definitely want the patch
that adds VariablePolicyLib to MdeModulePkg merged before the patch that adds
it to OvmfPkg. But if the patch series is done carefully it can still be
bisectable. In fact, bisectability will only be maintained iff we merge the
entire series in the order that you/Michael sent it; if OvmfPkg gets merged
first, then OvmfPkg will fail to build until the MdeModulePkg patch is merged.
I don't think it would be the right thing to squash the OvmfPkg & MdeModulePkg
patches together, as they really are distinct steps that you took on your
journey towards making the VariablePolicy sausage.
Of course, there may be other patch series that would be logical to squash,
especially if the author has not been careful to maintain bisectability. For
example, I think of some patch series went a little overboard and could have
been done in maybe 1-2 patches instead of 8-10. I would be happy to compromise
with you and say that squashes can be done in circumstances where both the
maintainer and the author agree to it.
Finally, I believe I can speak for everyone here that we all welcome your
contributions. I think Mike and the rest of the community are trying to adjust
the process to make contributing viable for a larger set of people. But at the
same time, you must realize that TianoCore isn't just going to do everything
exactly the same way that Microsoft does. You and Sean are expected to
compromise with the rest of the community.
Thanks,
Nate
On 5/19/20, 1:11 PM, "r...@edk2.groups.io on behalf of Bret Barkelew via
groups.io" <r...@edk2.groups.io on behalf of
bret.barkelew=microsoft....@groups.io> wrote:
I will honor Mike Kinney’s efforts with my vote of confidence.
I think we’re headed in the right direction, even with some of the things
that I disagree with.
In my history with TianoCore, I have learned to not be so quick to say
“this is fucking stupid”. Every time I’ve done that, I’ve later discovered the
reasons behind it, and even come to the conclusion that the designers were
quite clever.
That said, I want to contribute. And I won’t with the current system. I
hope to be able to with the future system.
- Bret
From: Desimone, Nathaniel L<mailto:nathaniel.l.desim...@intel.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 12:59 PM
To: devel@edk2.groups.io<mailto:devel@edk2.groups.io>; Bret
Barkelew<mailto:bret.barke...@microsoft.com>;
spbro...@outlook.com<mailto:spbro...@outlook.com>;
r...@edk2.groups.io<mailto:r...@edk2.groups.io>;
ler...@redhat.com<mailto:ler...@redhat.com>; Kinney, Michael
D<mailto:michael.d.kin...@intel.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [edk2-devel] [edk2-rfc] GitHub Pull Request based
Code Review Process
Hi Bret,
I believe you missed my point. I don’t want my patch series to be merged
piece by piece; I want it merged all at once, in the order that I specified.
I tend to agree with Laszlo that you are choosing not to learn how to use
Git properly. Commit early, commit often, perfect later, publish once is the
Git best practice. You should not hide the sausage making, which is exactly
what you are proposing. I find it unfortunate that you consider refusing to
learn GIt best practices a mark of prestige.
Thanks,
Nate
From: <devel@edk2.groups.io> on behalf of "Bret Barkelew via groups.io"
<bret.barkelew=microsoft....@groups.io>
Reply-To: "devel@edk2.groups.io" <devel@edk2.groups.io>,
"bret.barke...@microsoft.com" <bret.barke...@microsoft.com>
Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 at 12:35 PM
To: "devel@edk2.groups.io" <devel@edk2.groups.io>, "Desimone, Nathaniel L"
<nathaniel.l.desim...@intel.com>, "spbro...@outlook.com"
<spbro...@outlook.com>, "r...@edk2.groups.io" <r...@edk2.groups.io>,
"ler...@redhat.com" <ler...@redhat.com>, "Kinney, Michael D"
<michael.d.kin...@intel.com>
Subject: Re: [edk2-devel] [edk2-rfc] GitHub Pull Request based Code Review
Process
Nate, I believe you missed Sean’s point.
Each one of those packages should have been a separate PR.
Ergo, no information would have been lost in the squash.
Also, it’s not so much that we *can’t* learn. It’s that we choose not to.
Around here, it’s a mark of prestige to not open doors with your face if it
seems like there’s a better way. Makes it easier to focus on the work.
- Bret
From: Nate DeSimone via
groups.io<mailto:nathaniel.l.desimone=intel....@groups.io>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 11:02 AM
To: devel@edk2.groups.io<mailto:devel@edk2.groups.io>;
spbro...@outlook.com<mailto:spbro...@outlook.com>;
r...@edk2.groups.io<mailto:r...@edk2.groups.io>;
ler...@redhat.com<mailto:ler...@redhat.com>; Bret
Barkelew<mailto:bret.barke...@microsoft.com>; Kinney, Michael
D<mailto:michael.d.kin...@intel.com>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [edk2-devel] [edk2-rfc] GitHub Pull Request based
Code Review Process
Hi Sean,
My recent spelling fix patch series is a good example of why this is a bad
idea actually:
https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fedk2.groups.io%2Fg%2Fdevel%2Fmessage%2F59779&data=02%7C01%7Cbret.barkelew%40microsoft.com%7C2edef9b2c759477da79708d7fc38039d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637255189829127641&sdata=xYwOvgWRR2emIUFhy3CG%2Frxs774JyHIhlA0%2BrzV8dlU%3D&reserved=0<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fedk2.groups.io%2Fg%2Fdevel%2Fmessage%2F59779&data=02%7C01%7Cbret.barkelew%40microsoft.com%7C2edef9b2c759477da79708d7fc38039d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637255189829127641&sdata=xYwOvgWRR2emIUFhy3CG%2Frxs774JyHIhlA0%2BrzV8dlU%3D&reserved=0>
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https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fedk2.groups.io%2Fg%2Fdevel%2Fmessage%2F59781&data=02%7C01%7Cbret.barkelew%40microsoft.com%7C2edef9b2c759477da79708d7fc38039d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637255189829137632&sdata=YXgZgfwFGRiHzlN92j7jaf8hPaA58iD21A483yCesB8%3D&reserved=0<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fedk2.groups.io%2Fg%2Fdevel%2Fmessage%2F59781&data=02%7C01%7Cbret.barkelew%40microsoft.com%7C2edef9b2c759477da79708d7fc38039d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637255189829137632&sdata=YXgZgfwFGRiHzlN92j7jaf8hPaA58iD21A483yCesB8%3D&reserved=0>
https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fedk2.groups.io%2Fg%2Fdevel%2Fmessage%2F59782&data=02%7C01%7Cbret.barkelew%40microsoft.com%7C2edef9b2c759477da79708d7fc38039d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637255189829137632&sdata=Cad7XxJOMK%2FEsczlQVu3DcITjVQbC1j797Q11DbAISU%3D&reserved=0<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fedk2.groups.io%2Fg%2Fdevel%2Fmessage%2F59782&data=02%7C01%7Cbret.barkelew%40microsoft.com%7C2edef9b2c759477da79708d7fc38039d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637255189829137632&sdata=Cad7XxJOMK%2FEsczlQVu3DcITjVQbC1j797Q11DbAISU%3D&reserved=0>
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https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fedk2.groups.io%2Fg%2Fdevel%2Fmessage%2F59784&data=02%7C01%7Cbret.barkelew%40microsoft.com%7C2edef9b2c759477da79708d7fc38039d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637255189829137632&sdata=jic1pWXehzaiYdq3ihpR7uXZ9R0T0XdsUsc%2FHeAgpUo%3D&reserved=0<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fedk2.groups.io%2Fg%2Fdevel%2Fmessage%2F59784&data=02%7C01%7Cbret.barkelew%40microsoft.com%7C2edef9b2c759477da79708d7fc38039d%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637255189829137632&sdata=jic1pWXehzaiYdq3ihpR7uXZ9R0T0XdsUsc%2FHeAgpUo%3D&reserved=0>
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Notice that I split along package boundaries, because the maintainers for
each package is a different set of people. If my patch series was squashed at
merge time... how do I know who reviewed what? If the commit set is not
correct.. I tend to say so in my feedback :). The only sane way to squash this
series would be to have a human re-write all the commit messages, which I am
against.
Generally those that prefer an easily bisectable history have such
preference mostly due to the usage of validators that immediately resort
bisecting as a method to root cause an issue since they tend to not understand
the code very well. Edk2 already has 12 years of non-bisectable history, so
this method is going to be ineffective anyway.
With regard to sending squashed commits, I understand that those who are
new may have difficulty sending a properly formatted patch series, but frankly
attempting to shield them from having to learn I am strongly against. I suggest
that Microsoft invest in its human capital similar to how Intel does. If you
cannot figure out how to send a properly formatted patch series... then do your
work on the internal codebase (or perhaps MU.) Within the Intel, having the
skillset to contribute to TianoCore is considered a mark of prestige, and thus
needs to be earned.
TLDR, I will reject squashed commits on any packages that I maintain.
Thanks,
Nate
> -----Original Message-----
> From: devel@edk2.groups.io <devel@edk2.groups.io> On Behalf Of Sean
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2020 9:54 AM
> To: r...@edk2.groups.io; Desimone, Nathaniel L
> <nathaniel.l.desim...@intel.com>; ler...@redhat.com;
> bret.barke...@microsoft.com; devel@edk2.groups.io; Kinney, Michael D
> <michael.d.kin...@intel.com>
> Subject: Re: [edk2-devel] [edk2-rfc] GitHub Pull Request based Code Review
> Process
>
> Nate/Laszlo,
>
> Regarding a squash merge workflow. I agree it can be abused and we all
> have seen terrible examples. But a patch series that contains 500+ file
> changes isn't really much better. Just because it is broken into multiple
> commits doesn't mean it is the right set of commits.
>
> Anyway a squash merge workflow works amazingly well with and is
> optimized for a web based review and PR processes. It allows a user to
> respond to changes, fix issues, learn thru the PR process, all while
keeping
> complete track of the progression. Then once all "status"
> checks and reviews are complete, it is squashed into a neat commit for
> mainline, containing only the relevant data in the message.
>
> So, the ask is that we don't exclude squash merge workflows. Those
> reviewing the PR can decide what is appropriate for the PR content
> submitted. Just as you would request changes to the contents (or
> ordering) of a commit in a series, if the reviewers don't agree that the
PR
> contents should be in a single commit then obviously it shouldn't be
> squashed to one.
>
> Contributions like spelling fixes, typos, minor bug fixes, documentation
> additions/fixes, etc all are great examples of PRs that can easily
leverage
> squash merges and this workflow significantly lowers the burden of the
> contribution and review process. This workflow is also are much easier
for
> casual or first time contributors.
>
> I don't exactly know how we would enable this but I assume we could
> leverage tags or make it clear in the PR description. First step is to
get
> alignment that a squash merge workflow, while not appropriate for all
> contributions, is not something to be excluded.
>
> Thanks
> Sean
>
>
>
> On 5/19/2020 12:21 AM, Nate DeSimone wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> >
> >
> > I tend to agree with most of Laszlo's points. Specifically, that moving
to pull
> requests will not fix the fact that maintainers are usually busy people
and
> don't always give feedback in a punctual manner. Like Laszlo, I would also
> prefer that we do not squash patch series. My biggest reason for not
> squashing patch series is because when you put everything into a single
> commit, I have had to review commits with 500+ files changed. Opening git
> difftool on a commit like that is awful.
> >
> >
> >
> > However, I would like to register my general endorsement for pull
requests
> or some other web based system of code review… and I don’t have an
> Instagram account by the way :) Personally, I prefer Gerrit as I use it a
lot with
> coreboot and other projects. But since we are using Github for hosting,
pull
> requests are an easy switch and a logical choice. My main reason for being
> excited about pull requests mostly has to do with the amount of manual
> effort required to be a TianoCore maintainer right now. I have set up my
> email filter so that the mailing list is categorized like so:
> >
> >
> >
> > [cid:image001.png@01D62D71.502B55E0]
> >
> >
> >
> > Implementing the logic to parse the contents of emails to categorize
them
> like this required me to define no less than 12 email filter rules in
Microsoft
> Outlook, and I have to change my filtering logic every time I am
> added/removed from a Maintainers.txt file. I’m sure every other maintainer
> has spent a time separately implementing filtering logic like I have.
This helps,
> but still for every thread, I have to go and check if one of the other
> maintainers has already reviewed/pushed that patch series yet, and if not
> review/push it. If I have ] feedback on a patch series, I have to
categorize it
> as awaiting response from author and check up on it from time to time,
> sometimes I ping the author directly and remind them to send a new patch
> series. Implementing this state machine is a lot of manual work and it
kind of
> feels like I’m a telephone operator in the 1950s. I greatly welcome
> automation here as I am sure it will increase the number of patch series
I am
> able to review per hour.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Nate
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: r...@edk2.groups.io <r...@edk2.groups.io> On Behalf Of Laszlo
> > Ersek
> > Sent: Friday, May 15, 2020 2:08 AM
> > To: r...@edk2.groups.io; bret.barke...@microsoft.com;
> > devel@edk2.groups.io; Kinney, Michael D <michael.d.kin...@intel.com>
> > Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: [edk2-devel] [edk2-rfc] GitHub Pull
> > Request based Code Review Process
> >
> >
> >
> > On 05/15/20 06:49, Bret Barkelew via groups.io wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> I would far prefer the approach of individual PRs for commits to
> >> allow
> >
> >> for the squash flexibility (and is the strategy I think I would
> >> pursue
> >
> >> with my PRs). For example, the VarPol PR would be broken up into 9
> >> PRs
> >
> >> for each final commit, and we can get them in one by one.
> >
> >> Ideally, each one would be a small back and forth and then in. If it
> >
> >> had been done that way to begin with, it would be over in a week and
> >> a
> >
> >> half or so, rather than the multiple months that we’re now verging
> >
> >> on.
> >
> >
> >
> > This differs extremely from how we've been working on edk2-devel (or
> from how any git-based project works that I've ever been involved with).
> >
> > And I think the above workflow is out of scope, for migrating the edk2
> process to github.
> >
> >
> >
> > Again, the structuring of a patch series is a primary trait. Iterating
only on
> individual patches does not allow for the reordering / restructuring of
the
> patch series (dropping patches, reordering patches, inserting patches,
> moving hunks between patches).
> >
> >
> >
> > It's common that the necessity to revise an earlier patch emerges while
> reworking a later patch. For instance, the git-rebase(1) manual dedicates
a
> separate section to "splitting commits".
> >
> >
> >
> > In the initial evaluation of "web forges", Phabricator was one of the
> "contestants". Phabricator didn't support the "patch series" concept at
all, it
> only supported review requests for individual patches, and it supported
> setting up dependencies between them. So, for example, a 27-patch series
> would require 27 submissions and 26 dependencies.
> >
> >
> >
> > Lacking support for the patch series concept was an immediate deal
> breaker with Phabricator.
> >
> >
> >
> > The longest patch series I've ever submitted to edk2-devel had 58
patches.
> It was SMM enablement for OVMF. It went from v1 to v5 (v5 was merged),
> and the patch count varied significantly:
> >
> >
> >
> > v1: 58 patches (25 Jul 2015)
> >
> > v2: 41 patches ( 9 Oct 2015)
> >
> > v3: 52 patches (15 Oct 2015)
> >
> > v4: 41 patches ( 3 Nov 2015)
> >
> > v5: 33 patches (27 Nov 2015)
> >
> >
> >
> > (The significant drop in the patch count was due to Mike Kinney open
> > sourcing and upstreaming the *real* PiSmmCpuDxeSmm driver (which was
> > huge work in its own right), allowing me to drop the Quark-originated
> > 32-bit-only PiSmmCpuDxeSmm variant, from my series.)
> >
> >
> >
> > The contribution process should make difficult things possible, even if
that
> complicates simple things somewhat. A process that makes simple things
> simple and difficult things impossible is useless. This is what the
Instagram
> generation seems to be missing.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't know why the VariablePolicy work took months. I can see the
> following threads on the list:
> >
> >
> >
> > * [edk2-devel] [PATCH v1 0/9] Add the VariablePolicy feature
> >
> > Fri, 10 Apr 2020 11:36:01 -0700
> >
> >
> >
> > * [edk2-devel] [PATCH v2 00/12] Add the VariablePolicy feature
> >
> > Mon, 11 May 2020 23:46:23 -0700
> >
> >
> >
> > I have two sets of comments:
> >
> >
> >
> > (1) It's difficult to tell in retrospect (because the series seem to
have been
> posted with somewhat problematic threading), but the delay apparently
> came from multiple sources.
> >
> >
> >
> > (1a) Review was slow and spotty.
> >
> >
> >
> > The v1 blurb received some comments in the first week after it was
posted.
> But the rest of the v1 series (the actual patches) received feedback like
this:
> >
> >
> >
> > - v1 1/9: no feedback
> >
> > - v1 2/9: 12 days after posting
> >
> > - v1 3/9: 16 days after posting
> >
> > - v1 4/9: no feedback
> >
> > - v1 5/9: no feedback
> >
> > - v1 6/9: no feedback
> >
> > - v1 7/9: no feedback
> >
> > - v1 8/9: no feedback
> >
> > - v1 9/9: no feedback
> >
> >
> >
> > (1b) There was also quite some time between the last response in the v1
> thread (Apr 26th, as far as I can see), and the posting of the v2 series
(May
> 11th).
> >
> >
> >
> > (1c) The v2 blurb got almost immediate, and numerous feedback (on the
> day of posting, and the day after). Regarding the individual patches, they
> didn't fare too well:
> >
> >
> >
> > - v2 01/12: superficial comment on the day of posting from me (not a
> >
> > designated MdeModulePkg review), on the day of posting;
> > no
> >
> > other feedback thus far
> >
> > - v2 02/12: ditto
> >
> > - v2 03/12: no feedback
> >
> > - v2 04/12: superficial (coding style) comments on the day of posting
> >
> > - v2 05/12: no feedback
> >
> > - v2 06/12: no feedback
> >
> > - v2 07/12: no feedback
> >
> > - v2 08/12: no feedback
> >
> > - v2 09/12: no feedback
> >
> > - v2 10/12: no feedback
> >
> > - v2 11/12: reasonably in-depth review from responsible co-maintainer
> >
> > (yours truly), on the day of posting
> >
> > - v2 12/12: no feedback
> >
> >
> >
> > In total, I don't think the current process takes the blame for the
delay. If
> reviewers don't care (or have no time) now, that problem will not change
> with the transition to github.com.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > (2) The VariablePolicy series is actually a good example that patch
series
> restructuring is important.
> >
> >
> >
> > (2a) The patch count went from 9 (in v1) to 12 (in v2).
> >
> >
> >
> > (2b) And under v2, Liming still pointed out: "To keep each commit build
> pass, the patch set should first add new library instance, then add the
library
> instance into each platform DSC, last update Variable driver to consume
new
> library instance."
> >
> >
> >
> > Furthermore, I requested enabling the feature in ArmVirtPkg too, and
> maybe (based on owner feedback) UefiPayloadPkg.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thus, the v2->v3 update will most likely bring about both patch order
> changes, and an increased patch count.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Laszlo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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