I’m going to top post again Whimsy mission as provided in Board reports: > The mission of Apache Whimsy is the creation and maintenance of software > related to tools that help automate various administrative tasks or > information > lookup activities
With this description there is no preference for the platform used to provide such tools. > On Aug 3, 2025, at 6:16 AM, Shane Curcuru <a...@shanecurcuru.org> wrote: > > Welcome, and thanks for stepping up Dave! > > sebb wrote on 7/31/25 7:06 PM: >> On Thu, 31 Jul 2025 at 18:37, Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> wrote: > ...snip... >>> There are many other useful tools on the Whimsy platform. > > There are a LOT of other tools that different groups at the ASF use: > > https://whimsy.apache.org/committers/tools > >>> I would like to propose that this PMC start to build a Workbench platform >>> using Python and the ASFQuart framework using practices developed during >>> the creation of the new Board Agenda Tool (svn integration and svelte) and >>> the Apache Trusted Releases platform (uv and storage integration). >> What is 'uv'? I assume it is not ultra-violet. > > Good question! > >> I'm not sure what you mean by a Workbench platform; at present the >> Whimsy Workbench is for the Secretary tooling only. >> Apart from the 3 tools mentioned above, I think all the other Whimsy >> tools are largely self-contained, and only share common library code, >> so I am not clear what a Workbench would entail. > > It's clear that "workbench" has a different meaning for the tooling team than > here in Whimsy, so each group should provide a definition if we're going to > compare things. For me a workbench is a platform, desk, or station where various tools may be used to accomplish various tasks. > > "Whimsy" is also overloaded as a term, it has a LOT of stuff: > > - A stable server with ruby (and sinatra, passenger, rails, wunderbar, etc. > bits for full stack service) and storage and SVN/git integrations Whimsy does not currently support OAuth or MFA. > > - The ruby ASF module, which provides a rich and organized interface into the > majority of our internal data sources, like LDAP, committee-info, Incubator, > board reports, Member Meetings, and more. And yet Ruby programming skill and the need to test and debug the Whimsy monolith has been a blocker for some in contributing to the platform. Python support for LDAP exists in Infra’s python platforms and this supports the nearly complete Agenda Tool. > - Lots of user-facing independent applications (see /committers/tools) Yes. > - A variety of utility tools and data stores that interact or are used with > groups across the ASF: /public/*.json, /site/ > > - The Board Agenda and Secretary Workbench applications, which include richer > functionality (and underlying server bits) than other tools. From the Tooling team - Agenda Tool replacement is coming very soon and Secretary Workbench work will commence soon. > >>> If the Whimsy team is interested then we can setup a repository, vm host, >>> and start development. >>> >>> Whimsy could also become the home for member developed extras like Daniel’s >>> ASFMM. >> That's not really in the Whimsy mission as listed above. >> Maybe that could be taken over by ComDev? >> That code is all Python. It may be Python, but it’s not using the preferred asfquart framework. > > Taking a step back, no-one is asking the real question - the reason the board > appointed a VP, Tooling and budgeted funds to hire tooling staff. > > -> How much volunteer energy do we have for maintaining and building new > tools in the Ruby ecosystem? <- > > Reading Whimsy project reports shows a low and declining amount of energy for > Ruby actual work *. In our larger community, I see either disinterest or > near hostility towards Ruby as well. As noted above and as I am suggesting: 1. Nothing in the Whimsy mission requires Ruby. 2. By working on various “whimsical” tools using Infra’s preferred platforms all new and rewritten tools can be more easily made essential should the Board find it necessary. > Since the Infra Team has long standardized on python, the obvious next > organizational question is: how do we create a place where volunteers can > build useful and stable things like Whimsy bits, but do so in an environment > that mirrors the python world that Infra natively supports? Because in that > case, if a popular tool becomes "critical", then it's merely a simple > redeployment of the tool, not re-engineering it from our Ruby ASF:: modules > into Infra's asfquart land. So, Tooling is living in asfquart land and the offer here is for future Whimsy to also be in asfquart land. There are many examples. If the PMC wishes to remain only with the Ruby platform then future whimsical tooling will have a harder lift towards being useful as an essential tool. Best, Dave > > -- > - Shane > Member > The Apache Software Foundation > > * Note that while our amazing sebb may have the strength of 10 engineers, one > human can't run a whole project alone.
