On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Jacek Materna <ja...@assembla.com> wrote: > On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Stefan Sperling <s...@elego.de> wrote: >> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 01:04:01AM +0200, Johan Corveleyn wrote: >>> How do other ASF projects do this actually? Forums, presence in other >>> online places, more modern website look and feel, ...? >> >> They use github :) > > > On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 1:04 AM, Johan Corveleyn <jcor...@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Jacek Materna <ja...@assembla.com> wrote: >>> Just observing from afar, in my opinion the root of what you are >>> trying to achieve here ties more to a lack of 'modern' collaboration. >>> If we want to engage the community/users more (expand the >>> IB/participation sphere - new - users) I would also explore >>> alternative mediums (versus email). One of the reasons Github has been >>> so successful in making git an overwhelming force has little to do >>> with git itself. They made the process easy, rewarding and exciting to >>> contribute as a user. >>> >>> An approachable UX leads to more engagement - every time. I think it >>> would be great if we had an army of excited users wanting to test new >>> features. The product would benefit. Users in SaaS for example always >>> enjoy being [volunteering] part of a "beta" program - there is >>> something satisfying for users in it. On the flip-side "beta" program >>> for on-premise "enterprise" products are rarely so. >>> >>> Adding ontop the beta@ ... If we can make the "beta" collaborative, >>> more engaging for users I think its a real step forward towards an >>> army. >> >> I think you've got a point here, Jacek. I can see that our general >> UX-impression as a project / community comes across as dated. It would >> be great if we could improve that UX, and make it more modern, if that >> helps reaching a broader group of users to help us beta-testing etc >> ... and increase enthousiasm for our upcoming release. >> >> Do you (or anyone) have any concrete suggestions (within reach of our >> very limited resources, especially regarding volunteer time to spend >> on it)? People that want to help with this? >> >> How do other ASF projects do this actually? Forums, presence in other >> online places, more modern website look and feel, ...? >> >> -- >> Johan > > Thinking out loud here ... > > Idea here is to change incrementally, so we can: change tools, cannot > impact work flow, limit effort and amplify our capabilities as a team. > > Lets consider the five main work flows: > - reviewing a patch submission; > - reviewing a (typically recent) commit; > - reviewing a back-port nomination (from trunk to branches/1.9.x); > - reviewing a patch to a vulnerability (this is done on private@). > - beta/feedback release > > Focusing on #5 for this thread and knowing that apache projects cannot > have mandatory infrastructure dependencies on third parties, in order > to ensure the projects' long-term independence; projects may use > third-party-hosted tools, but they may not rely on such tools - the > projects always have to have a Plan B for in case the third party > service goes down. > > If we wanted to try the "github" model - Assembla is more than happy > to support the community with native SVN support for "collab". > > For the case of beta@ we've done this successfully before where we > create a public area for users to discuss, comment on features, code, > ideas for an upcoming release. It would be extremely simple to put > 1.10 into a repo with blame/compare/pull request/protected directories > capabilities along side ticket tracking for feedback. > > If the test is successful and we improve quality/feedback, it's a great win. > > I can also help get resources to move other channels such as the > forums, public discussion around 1.10 - once we close on a date. > Getting good engagement is not as easy as a forum - marketing is a > very important axis to get results, especially if we want to reach > audiences typically not involved, such as for example game artists who > use SVN every day - plenty of persona's out there that are using SVN > for its power, are non-technical but would love the opportunity to > help shape the "latest" SVN release with feedback. > > I think a modern subversion website is a great idea. I could look at > getting resources to help with that as well. Even a simple > re-surfacing may be a great step. > > If nobody is allergic to it I could setup a hosted 1.10-beta and see > what everyone has to say with a concrete dartboard to throw darts at - > worst case we burn it down and/or get the idea train going.
Hi Jacek, Thanks a lot for these suggestions. They are all constructive ideas, but I think we'll have to chew a bit on them. I certainly want us to make progress in these areas, but it might take a while to discuss these things. Just wanted to drop a quick note that this hasn't fallen on deaf ears ... -- Johan
