+ 1 Mich Talebzadeh,
Architect | Data Engineer | Data Science | Financial Crime PhD <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy> Imperial College London <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_College_London> London, United Kingdom view my Linkedin profile <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh *Disclaimer:* The information provided is correct to the best of my knowledge but of course cannot be guaranteed . It is essential to note that, as with any advice, quote "one test result is worth one-thousand expert opinions (Werner <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun>Von Braun <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun>)". On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 at 18:52, Russell Jurney <russell.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: > Okay, first I’m going to fix a bug or two, I’ll get started on an SPIP. > > Russ > > On Wed, Nov 13, 2024 at 1:56 PM Mich Talebzadeh <mich.talebza...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hm. Since it sounds like a plan why Russell you go ahead and create a >> SPIP for it, then, this discussion takes a formal approach and is >> documented. Otherwise we are just flogging a dead horse so to speak. >> >> HTH >> >> Mich Talebzadeh, >> >> Architect | Data Engineer | Data Science | Financial Crime >> PhD <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy> Imperial >> College London <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_College_London> >> London, United Kingdom >> >> >> view my Linkedin profile >> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> >> >> >> https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh >> >> >> >> *Disclaimer:* The information provided is correct to the best of my >> knowledge but of course cannot be guaranteed . It is essential to note >> that, as with any advice, quote "one test result is worth one-thousand >> expert opinions (Werner >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun>Von Braun >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun>)". >> >> >> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 at 20:10, Russell Jurney <russell.jur...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> It might be, but graph processing is a desirable, very useful feature of >>> Spark. GraphX doesn't see more popularity because it never got a DataFrame >>> interface. If someone is willing to add one and maintain it, that seems >>> best of all. >>> >>> Russ >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2024 at 7:12 AM Ángel <angel.alvarez.pas...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Seems to me.... it would be easier to move GraphX to graphframes than >>>> the opposite. >>>> >>>> El mar, 8 oct 2024 a las 21:52, Reynold Xin >>>> (<r...@databricks.com.invalid>) escribió: >>>> >>>>> We can also consider the following: move GraphFrame into Spark, and >>>>> make GraphX an internal impl detail of GraphFrame. Then we can over time >>>>> change the implementation, simplify it (not sure if it is possible, but >>>>> somebody can look into it).... >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 7:04 PM Russell Jurney < >>>>> russell.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Took a look at recent activity. Spark 3.5 support >>>>>> <https://github.com/graphframes/graphframes/commit/e54f249605dde60787f9b41b88ed7d5872b7dfab> >>>>>> was >>>>>> added a year ago. I'm sure we'll add Spark 4 support as soon as it is >>>>>> out. >>>>>> >>>>>> There is a new issue to organize a GraphFrames Hackathon >>>>>> <https://github.com/graphframes/graphframes/issues/460>. Please sign >>>>>> up to help! https://github.com/graphframes/graphframes/issues/460 >>>>>> >>>>>> I seriously need GraphX and GraphFrames to make it... I have no other >>>>>> way of doing property graph motif matching on large graphs. It's kind of >>>>>> important to me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Some slides on my work with GraphFrames: >>>>>> >>>>>> [image: image.png] >>>>>> >>>>>> [image: image.png] >>>>>> >>>>>> [image: image.png] >>>>>> >>>>>> [image: image.png] >>>>>> >>>>>> [image: image.png] >>>>>> >>>>>> Russell >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 6:06 PM Holden Karau <holden.ka...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> That’s awesome! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/holdenkarau >>>>>>> Fight Health Insurance: https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/ >>>>>>> <https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/?q=hk_email> >>>>>>> Books (Learning Spark, High Performance Spark, etc.): >>>>>>> https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 <https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9> >>>>>>> YouTube Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau >>>>>>> Pronouns: she/her >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 5:42 PM Russell Jurney < >>>>>>> russell.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I’ll organize a hackathon. A friend wants to finish the >>>>>>>> implementation of Lucian modularity for GraphFrames. I’ll fix some >>>>>>>> GraphX >>>>>>>> bugs at it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I did just blog all about the motif matching in GraphFrames: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://blog.graphlet.ai/financial-crime-and-corruption-network-motifs-4cf2e8e10eb5 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Russ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 5:38 PM Holden Karau <holden.ka...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So this discuss thread and the vote thread to deprecate to leave >>>>>>>>> the option of removing it during 4.X are probably the highest profile >>>>>>>>> it’s >>>>>>>>> been in years. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In the past for parts of Spark I’ve cared about I’ve organized >>>>>>>>> virtual meetings to co-ordinate work — if your connected with some of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> Spark+Graph community reaching out to find others and organizing a >>>>>>>>> meeting >>>>>>>>> could be a way to raise the profile a bit? Maybe organize a virtual >>>>>>>>> hackathon (I’m meaning to try this for some other things so happy to >>>>>>>>> share >>>>>>>>> what I learn from doing that)? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/holdenkarau >>>>>>>>> Fight Health Insurance: https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/ >>>>>>>>> <https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/?q=hk_email> >>>>>>>>> Books (Learning Spark, High Performance Spark, etc.): >>>>>>>>> https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 <https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9> >>>>>>>>> YouTube Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau >>>>>>>>> Pronouns: she/her >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 5:02 PM Russell Jurney < >>>>>>>>> russell.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I’ll look for a bug to fix. If GraphX is outside of Spark, Spark >>>>>>>>>> would tend to break GraphFrames and it will be burdensome on an >>>>>>>>>> external >>>>>>>>>> project to keep up. Graph computing on Spark is implrtant to a lot of >>>>>>>>>> people, is there a way to raise visibility here? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 4:24 PM Holden Karau < >>>>>>>>>> holden.ka...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> There are no specific tickets associated with the lack of >>>>>>>>>>> maintaince or this as the component has not been maintained for a >>>>>>>>>>> sufficiently long time. If your interested in taking it on that’s >>>>>>>>>>> wonderful, probably starting with fixing some bugs could be a great >>>>>>>>>>> place >>>>>>>>>>> to start and figure out if it’s something you want to do long term. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I would recommend making a first bug fix in a actively >>>>>>>>>>> maintained area of Spark to get to >>>>>>>>>>> Know some reviewers since there is not anyone tracking the >>>>>>>>>>> GraphX PRs. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As a note I don’t think GraphX is required for Graph Frames long >>>>>>>>>>> term, so another option would be to talk to the GraphFrames folks >>>>>>>>>>> and move >>>>>>>>>>> the GraphX code over to it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ideally we’d have someone willing to act as a mentor or guide >>>>>>>>>>> but so far we have no volunteers (especially no one familiar with >>>>>>>>>>> the graph >>>>>>>>>>> X code). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/holdenkarau >>>>>>>>>>> Fight Health Insurance: https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/ >>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/?q=hk_email> >>>>>>>>>>> Books (Learning Spark, High Performance Spark, etc.): >>>>>>>>>>> https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 <https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9> >>>>>>>>>>> YouTube Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau >>>>>>>>>>> Pronouns: she/her >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 3:25 PM Russell Jurney < >>>>>>>>>>> russell.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I volunteer to maintain GraphX to keep GraphFrames a viable >>>>>>>>>>>> project. I don’t have a clear view on whether it works with Spark >>>>>>>>>>>> 4 or if >>>>>>>>>>>> it needs updates? I don’t have Spark commits but I’m a committer >>>>>>>>>>>> on Apache >>>>>>>>>>>> DataFu and mentored the Spark feature for it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Can someone tell me what is involved? Point me at a ticket? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Russell >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 12:11 AM Erik Eklund < >>>>>>>>>>>> eekl...@definitivehc.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>>>>>>>> We rely on GraphX for an important component of our product. >>>>>>>>>>>>> And we really want it to stay a typed interface. Please keep >>>>>>>>>>>>> GraphX. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Erik >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *From: *Holden Karau <holden.ka...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Date: *Sunday, October 6, 2024 at 06:22 >>>>>>>>>>>>> *To: *Ángel <angel.alvarez.pas...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Cc: *Russell Jurney <russell.jur...@gmail.com>, Mich >>>>>>>>>>>>> Talebzadeh <mich.talebza...@gmail.com>, Spark dev list < >>>>>>>>>>>>> dev@spark.apache.org>, user @spark <u...@spark.apache.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [DISCUSS] Deprecate GraphX OR Find new >>>>>>>>>>>>> maintainers interested in GraphX OR leave it as is? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So are there companies using it? And are they willing to >>>>>>>>>>>>> contribute to maintaining it? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/holdenkarau >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fight Health Insurance: https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.fighthealthinsurance.com%2f%3fq%3dhk_email&c=E,1,OT9ylxCx5xRNCToPSzu0VEvefs4uts16fTBydH2NiLHMGEwLjrEXgkhU8W-Ai6xD8VDMyWea44GBMOEecMNdapaZKZbBTrZpquOBKi6YRlqu-FVAzji6-w,,&typo=1> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Books (Learning Spark, High Performance Spark, etc.): >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2famzn.to%2f2MaRAG9&c=E,1,h0ccgHctUPRY4zAN_qZ-qdBgLDpQLtm7KaOL4u12U4PR7PeJ4MUBOS8bbD7CNssUIMqRMvY_pOqbh7PfLY0lRpQh9mfqBC0KnSHBZzxxSJJr-55r5kv6YjYwrA,,&typo=1> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> YouTube Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Pronouns: she/her >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 9:17 PM Ángel < >>>>>>>>>>>>> angel.alvarez.pas...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> That would definitely affect companies using GraphX, but at >>>>>>>>>>>>> least they’d have the choice to migrate their code. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that’s probably the way to go. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> El dom, 6 oct 2024 a las 6:09, Holden Karau (< >>>>>>>>>>>>> holden.ka...@gmail.com>) escribió: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So removing GraphX from Spark would not prevent GraphFrames >>>>>>>>>>>>> from continuing, they could pick up the GraphX source and >>>>>>>>>>>>> incorporate it >>>>>>>>>>>>> into their project. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/holdenkarau >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fight Health Insurance: https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.fighthealthinsurance.com%2f%3fq%3dhk_email&c=E,1,9xMMQlY7gtmkqxT0NTmS8KMg4wOUjw0PWKM-oepAYAkE-SiM5pyXCb80AuRZYJ4zMIedVlwVMAKi_eh52Hof0LsteXx2eIslnsDBdmVeuocpILpneg,,&typo=1> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Books (Learning Spark, High Performance Spark, etc.): >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2famzn.to%2f2MaRAG9&c=E,1,kbGbMBRMidAYi0aqUmj949vRahpEjVzSgJv_YYtO5EteSXZy4RrMYXJU48mN2CyS5sdovsgiFAAiBLnyQ29gCCn8xbTrEJmfIhjtH7tD4N31VUoLtQ,,&typo=1> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> YouTube Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Pronouns: she/her >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 5:22 PM Russell Jurney < >>>>>>>>>>>>> russell.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> A lot of people like me use GraphFrames for its connected >>>>>>>>>>>>> components implementation and its motif matching feature. I am >>>>>>>>>>>>> willing to >>>>>>>>>>>>> work on it to keep it alive. They did a 0.8.3 release not too >>>>>>>>>>>>> long ago. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Please keep GraphX alive. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 3:44 PM Mich Talebzadeh < >>>>>>>>>>>>> mich.talebza...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I added the user list as they may have vested interest here >>>>>>>>>>>>> and and hopefully can contribute >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Few suggestions: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Data-Driven Decision Making: Return to the core >>>>>>>>>>>>> metrics—analyze usage trends, performance benchmarks, and the >>>>>>>>>>>>> actual impact >>>>>>>>>>>>> on businesses that rely on GraphX. Objectivity can be restored >>>>>>>>>>>>> by letting >>>>>>>>>>>>> data speak louder than opinions so to speak. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Broaden the Discussion: Engage more stakeholders from >>>>>>>>>>>>> diverse backgrounds (especially spark users) to bring in new >>>>>>>>>>>>> perspectives >>>>>>>>>>>>> and counterbalance the more vocal but potentially narrow >>>>>>>>>>>>> interests of core >>>>>>>>>>>>> maintainers or open-source contributors. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Define Clear Criteria for Decision Making: Agree on a >>>>>>>>>>>>> set of objective criteria by which the project’s future will >>>>>>>>>>>>> be judged. >>>>>>>>>>>>> These could include market demand, contribution levels, >>>>>>>>>>>>> maintenance costs, >>>>>>>>>>>>> alternative solutions, and alignment with the overall Spark >>>>>>>>>>>>> ecosystem >>>>>>>>>>>>> goals. Some have already been covered. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. Timely Conclusion of Discussions: Set a timeline for >>>>>>>>>>>>> making a decision. Long, open-ended discussions tend to lose >>>>>>>>>>>>> focus. Putting >>>>>>>>>>>>> deadlines forces participants to focus on key issues and >>>>>>>>>>>>> prevents endless >>>>>>>>>>>>> debates. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 5. Borrowing from commercial settings, it is often >>>>>>>>>>>>> necessary for a strong leadership team to step in and make the >>>>>>>>>>>>> final >>>>>>>>>>>>> decision after considering the input. When the objectivity of >>>>>>>>>>>>> discussions >>>>>>>>>>>>> starts to wane, leadership needs to cut through the round >>>>>>>>>>>>> discussions and >>>>>>>>>>>>> steer towards action based on business and technical realities. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> HTH >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mich Talebzadeh, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Architect | Data Engineer | Data Science | Financial Crime >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> PhD <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy> Imperial >>>>>>>>>>>>> College London >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_College_London> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> London, United Kingdom >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Image removed by sender.] view my Linkedin profile >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fen.everybodywiki.com%2fMich_Talebzadeh&c=E,1,U1JaGVMkko53HkJO5fwmkIXfziTOWL3K1CkAeHwFG55TbZQUd5xVNLGpLt2o0ytujE6zaLpqU2GWCZqHSbo3SU4Wh9Rl8NG4bWPbFWUwyw,,&typo=1> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> *Disclaimer:* The information provided is correct to the best >>>>>>>>>>>>> of my knowledge but of course cannot be guaranteed . It is >>>>>>>>>>>>> essential to >>>>>>>>>>>>> note that, as with any advice, quote "one test result is >>>>>>>>>>>>> worth one-thousand expert opinions (Werner >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun>Von Braun >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun>)". >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 at 06:26, Ángel < >>>>>>>>>>>>> angel.alvarez.pas...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I completely agree with everyone here. I don’t think the issue >>>>>>>>>>>>> is deprecating it; to me, the problem lies in not providing a new >>>>>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>> better solution for handling graphs in Spark. In the past, I used >>>>>>>>>>>>> GraphX >>>>>>>>>>>>> via GraphFrames for record linkage, and I found it both useful and >>>>>>>>>>>>> effective. Is there any discussion about a potential replacement? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I’d be willing to help maintain GraphX, though I don’t have >>>>>>>>>>>>> previous experience with maintaining open-source projects. All I >>>>>>>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>>>>>>> promise is good intentions, willingness to learn and lots of >>>>>>>>>>>>> energy and >>>>>>>>>>>>> passion. Is that enough? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Btw, what's your take on this? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> · *GraphX* will be deprecated in favor of a new >>>>>>>>>>>>> graphing component, SparkGraph, based on Cypher >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fneo4j.com%2fdeveloper%2fcypher-query-language%2f&c=E,1,5sP_K0oxQDLYIfWhFPwgNEmTuXMR7tvCjLLcf_ZBAv7oIBySxARy9TyrqNkmZKfXwrIDrhe6TVBCUun2luRV_mAbSD4rooD9YRt5GYYgbHbBUYerg1mpA4Oe6eo,&typo=1>, >>>>>>>>>>>>> a much richer graph language than previously offered by GraphX. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/data-analytics/introducing-spark-3-and-hadoop-3-on-dataproc-image-version-2-0 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> El sáb, 5 oct 2024 a las 2:17, Mark Hamstra (< >>>>>>>>>>>>> markhams...@gmail.com>) escribió: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As I wrote to Holden privately, I might well change my vote to >>>>>>>>>>>>> be in >>>>>>>>>>>>> favor of a deprecation label combined with some effective >>>>>>>>>>>>> means of >>>>>>>>>>>>> communicating that this doesn't mean the end for GraphX if >>>>>>>>>>>>> interested >>>>>>>>>>>>> contributors come forward to rescue it. I don't like either >>>>>>>>>>>>> the idea >>>>>>>>>>>>> of keeping unmaintained code and public APIs around >>>>>>>>>>>>> (especially if >>>>>>>>>>>>> there are problems with them) or the idea of removing Spark >>>>>>>>>>>>> functionality just because no one has contributed to it for a >>>>>>>>>>>>> while. A >>>>>>>>>>>>> naked deprecation label feels somewhat drastic and pre-emptive >>>>>>>>>>>>> to me. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't expect that GraphX will be the last part of Spark to >>>>>>>>>>>>> run the >>>>>>>>>>>>> risk of death through neglect, and I think we need an >>>>>>>>>>>>> effective means >>>>>>>>>>>>> of encouraging resuscitation that a deprecation label on its >>>>>>>>>>>>> own does >>>>>>>>>>>>> not provide. On the other hand, if no one really is willing to >>>>>>>>>>>>> come to >>>>>>>>>>>>> the aid of GraphX or other neglected functionality given >>>>>>>>>>>>> adequate >>>>>>>>>>>>> warning of possible removal, I'm not then opposed to the usual >>>>>>>>>>>>> deprecation and removal process. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 4:10 PM Sean Owen <sro...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > This is a reasonable discussion, but maybe the more >>>>>>>>>>>>> practical point is: are you sure you want to block this >>>>>>>>>>>>> unilaterally? This >>>>>>>>>>>>> effectively makes a decision that GraphX cannot be removed for a >>>>>>>>>>>>> long >>>>>>>>>>>>> while. I'd understand it more if we had an active maintainer >>>>>>>>>>>>> and/or active >>>>>>>>>>>>> user proposing to veto, but my understanding is this is just a >>>>>>>>>>>>> proposal to >>>>>>>>>>>>> block this on behalf of some users, someone else who might do >>>>>>>>>>>>> some work and >>>>>>>>>>>>> hasn't to date for some reason. Add to that the fact that the >>>>>>>>>>>>> 'pro' >>>>>>>>>>>>> arguments all seem to be arguments for working on GraphFrames, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and I find >>>>>>>>>>>>> this somewhat drastic. >>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 5:23 PM Mark Hamstra < >>>>>>>>>>>>> markhams...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> "You can't say nothing is removable until there are no >>>>>>>>>>>>> users." >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> That is not what I am saying. Rather, I am countering what >>>>>>>>>>>>> others seem >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> to be suggesting: There are no users and no interest, >>>>>>>>>>>>> therefore we can >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> and should deprecate. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 3:10 PM Sean Owen <sro...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > I could flip this argument around. More strongly, not >>>>>>>>>>>>> being deprecated means "won't be removed" and likewise implies >>>>>>>>>>>>> support and >>>>>>>>>>>>> development. I don't think either of the latter have been true >>>>>>>>>>>>> for years. >>>>>>>>>>>>> What suggests this will change? A todo list is not going to do >>>>>>>>>>>>> anything, >>>>>>>>>>>>> IMHO. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > I'm also concerned about the cost of that, which I have >>>>>>>>>>>>> observed. GraphX PRs are almost certainly not going to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> reviewed because >>>>>>>>>>>>> of its state. Deprecation both communicates that reality, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> leaves an >>>>>>>>>>>>> option open, whereas not deprecating forecloses that option for a >>>>>>>>>>>>> while. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > I don't think the question is, does anyone use it? >>>>>>>>>>>>> because anyone can continue to use it -- in Spark 3.x for sure, >>>>>>>>>>>>> and in 4.x >>>>>>>>>>>>> if not removed. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > You can't say nothing is removable until there are no >>>>>>>>>>>>> users. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > Also, why would GraphFrames not be the logical home of >>>>>>>>>>>>> this going forward anyway? which I think is the subtext. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 4:56 PM Mark Hamstra < >>>>>>>>>>>>> markhams...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> I'm -1(*) because, while it technically means "might be >>>>>>>>>>>>> removed in the >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> future", I think developers and users are more prone to >>>>>>>>>>>>> interpret >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> something being marked as deprecated as "very likely >>>>>>>>>>>>> will be removed >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> in the future, so don't depend on this or waste your >>>>>>>>>>>>> time contributing >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> to its further development." I don't think the latter is >>>>>>>>>>>>> what we want >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> just because something hasn't been updated meaningfully >>>>>>>>>>>>> in a while. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> There have been How To articles for GraphX and Graph >>>>>>>>>>>>> Frames posted in >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> the not too distant past, and the Google Search trend >>>>>>>>>>>>> shows a pretty >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> steady level of interest, not a decline to zero, so I >>>>>>>>>>>>> don't think that >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> it is accurate to declare that there is no use or >>>>>>>>>>>>> interest in GraphX. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> Unless retaining GraphX is imposing significant costs on >>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> Spark development, I can't support deprecating GraphX. I >>>>>>>>>>>>> can support >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> encouraging GraphX and Graph Frames development through >>>>>>>>>>>>> something like >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> a To Do list or document of "What we'd like to see in >>>>>>>>>>>>> the way of >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> further development of Spark's graph processing >>>>>>>>>>>>> capabilities" -- i.e., >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> things that encourage and support new contributions to >>>>>>>>>>>>> address any >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> shortcomings in Spark's graph processing, not things >>>>>>>>>>>>> that discourage >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> contributions and use in the way that I believe simply >>>>>>>>>>>>> declaring >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> GraphX to be deprecated would. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> On Sun, Sep 29, 2024 at 11:04 AM Holden Karau < >>>>>>>>>>>>> holden.ka...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > Since we're getting close to cutting a 4.0 branch I'd >>>>>>>>>>>>> like to float the idea of officially deprecating Graph X. What >>>>>>>>>>>>> that would >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean (to me) is we would update the docs to indicate that Graph X >>>>>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>>>>> deprecated and it's APIs may be removed at anytime in the future. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > Alternatively, we could mark it as "unmaintained and >>>>>>>>>>>>> in search of maintainers" with a note that if no maintainers are >>>>>>>>>>>>> found, we >>>>>>>>>>>>> may remove it in a future minor version. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > Looking at the source graph X, I don't see any >>>>>>>>>>>>> meaningful active development going back over three years*. There >>>>>>>>>>>>> is even a >>>>>>>>>>>>> thread on user@ from 2017 asking if graph X is maintained >>>>>>>>>>>>> anymore, with no response from the developers. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > Now I'm open to the idea that GraphX is stable and >>>>>>>>>>>>> "works as is" and simply doesn't require modifications but given >>>>>>>>>>>>> the user >>>>>>>>>>>>> thread I'm a little concerned here about bringing this API with >>>>>>>>>>>>> us into >>>>>>>>>>>>> Spark 4 if we don't have anyone signed up to maintain it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > * Excluding globally applied changes >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > Twitter: https://twitter.com/holdenkarau >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > Fight Health Insurance: >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.fighthealthinsurance.com%2f&c=E,1,9CeJ-bKUShnxOFZMc15zJG1qgfAB9rnSDzrmLzNiXb8qE0NXedNCoZy4HobcS7laOMqtvJzYjvDzjBld1FaCPZpOBW6cf1l_xaG4bEbjYoDpNG0zuQ9_K5TW&typo=1> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > Books (Learning Spark, High Performance Spark, etc.): >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2famzn.to%2f2MaRAG9&c=E,1,HJPBNbN3nfUZcb0-2OgveqIE5I5lvPSv-bOfRXIprFdSsGMlNq15o6rueLf2ZQRfytMu0-t3IxSjYou2uuPzUrSAqJ0LV42n2hG8rnkkpN4AA5w4mQZFTs4,&typo=1> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > YouTube Live Streams: >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > Pronouns: she/her >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> To unsubscribe e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@spark.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@spark.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
