Hi Rui, Thanks for the feedback. My understanding about the interceptor is that it's not something that would be touched by users but would only be modified by cluster admins. So, I think we'd still need to include the parameters the parameters on the ProducerConfig. I already have the other approach coded, so changing the design will require some rework. I'll look at that example you mentioned.
-- Devin G. Bost On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, 10:18 PM Rui Fu <f...@rui.sh> wrote: > Hi Devin, > > Great proposal for giving function such useful feature, and thanks for > your detailed writing. After going through the history of this discussion, > I would like to have +1 with Jerry’s suggestion. With the interceptor, the > admins and users may have the maximum flexibility to customize their > producer configs. It may also reduce the parameters we put into the configs > and pulsar-admin. Also, we have some interceptors with Pulsar Functions > already, like the `RuntimeCustomizer` interface, so it is not a new tech > that users hard to adopt. > > Besides, I would like to suggest that to cover these changes with Python & > Go runtime as well if we will have some new fields to `Function.proto`. > > Best, > > Rui > 在 2021年4月2日 +0800 AM10:13,Devin Bost <devin.b...@gmail.com>,写道: > > What would be some of the additional benefits of using the interceptor > > approach? > > > > -- > > Devin G. Bost > > > > On Thu, Apr 1, 2021, 6:03 PM Jerry Peng <jerry.boyang.p...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Devin, > > > > > > Interceptors are located on the server side (broker/worker). Cluster > > > admins would create the plugins based on the interfaces I described and > > > install them on the server side. Regular function developers will not > > > implement or interact directly with the interceptor. > > > > > > > Would it be better to just ignore WorkerConfig defaults during > function > > > update? > > > > > > Yes. > > > > > > If the cluster admin changes the function config defaults and wants > > > existing functions to utilize those configs that have changed, the > admin > > > can just update those configs of the functions through the regular > update > > > mechanism for functions we have today. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 4:51 PM Devin Bost <devin.b...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Would it be better to just ignore WorkerConfig defaults during > function > > > > update? We could still update the function producer behavior through > the > > > > producerConfig passed as a REST parameter, but we'd avoid the edge > case I > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > Devin G. Bost > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 5:42 PM Devin Bost <devin.b...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I just remembered an edge case that motivated me to create that > > > > additional > > > > > flow. > > > > > In my PR, if any producerConfig values are null at registration or > > > > update, > > > > > we get those values from WorkerConfig instead. > > > > > However, when a user runs an update (on a function) for the first > time > > > > > after upgrading to the version of Pulsar with this feature, if > someone > > > > has > > > > > modified the function_worker.yml file (perhaps without their > > > knowledge), > > > > > those defaults from function_worker.yml will get picked up because > the > > > > > existing producerConfig will have null set for those values > (because > > > the > > > > > function was registered prior to the existence of this feature.) > So, > > > > > the user could be trying to update something unrelated, not > realizing > > > > that > > > > > their function is going to have its producerConfig updated by the > > > cluster > > > > > defaults. Most users won't be affected by this, but it could be > tricky > > > to > > > > > diagnose for the few who would get impacted by it. (Is this > description > > > > any > > > > > clearer? If not, it might be clearer if I diagram it.) > > > > > > > > > > Devin G. Bost > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 4:39 PM Jerry Peng < > jerry.boyang.p...@gmail.com > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Devin, > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand the usefulness of giving cluster admins the ability > to > > > > > > specify > > > > > > some defaults for functions at a cluster level. I think the right > > > time > > > > to > > > > > > apply those defaults is during function registration time. I am > not > > > > sure > > > > > > I > > > > > > understand the usefulness of what you are proposing we do during > > > update > > > > > > time. If you would like to change a config of an already running > > > > function > > > > > > why not just update it with config changes that are needed. I am > not > > > > sure > > > > > > you need the additional workflow you proposed for the update. > > > > > > > > > > > > Another idea to satisfy your use case is that instead of > leveraging a > > > > > > default config mechanism perhaps we should take a look at > implementing > > > > > > interceptors for the function/sources/sink API calls. We already > have > > > > > > interceptors implemented for many other pulsar functionalities. > > > Perhaps > > > > we > > > > > > should do it for Pulsar Functions APIs as well. With > interceptors you > > > > > > will > > > > > > be able to intercept all API operations to functions and > customize the > > > > > > requests however you would like. > > > > > > > > > > > > We can have a interface like: > > > > > > > > > > > > interface FunctionInterceptors { > > > > > > > > > > > > void regsterFunctionInterceptor (String tenant, String namespace, > > > String > > > > > > functionName, FunctionConfig functionConfig...); > > > > > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > for developers to implement. During the beginning of every > Function > > > API > > > > > > call the corresponding interceptor method gets called. For > example, > > > the > > > > > > "regsterFunctionInterceptor()" method I provided above will be > called > > > > > > towards the beginning of the registerFunction and allow you to > > > customize > > > > > > the function config however you want. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 1, 2021 at 2:08 PM Devin Bost <devin.b...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Cluster-Wide and Function-Specific Producer Defaults* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * - Status: Proposal- Author: Devin Bost (with guidance from > Jerry > > > > > > Peng)- > > > > > > > Pull Request: https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/9987 > > > > > > > <https://github.com/apache/pulsar/pull/9987>- Mailing List > > > > discussion: > > > > > > - > > > > > > > Release: 2.8.0* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Motivation* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pulsar currently provides no way to allow users or operators to > > > change > > > > > > the > > > > > > > producer behavior of Pulsar functions. For organizations that > are > > > > making > > > > > > > heavy use of functions, the ability to tune messaging behavior > of > > > > > > functions > > > > > > > is greatly desired. Moreover, current function messaging > defaults > > > > > > appear to > > > > > > > be causing issues for certain workloads. (For example, some > bugs > > > > appear > > > > > > to > > > > > > > be related to having batching enabled. See #6054.) Enabling > > > operators > > > > to > > > > > > > modify these settings will help Pulsar cluster admins > workaround > > > > issues > > > > > > to > > > > > > > enable them to upgrade legacy versions of Pulsar to more recent > > > > > > versions. > > > > > > > Moreover, enabling greater tuning of these settings can > provide more > > > > > > > opportunity for performance optimization in production > environments. > > > > We > > > > > > > need the ability to modify these function producer settings: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - batchingEnabled > > > > > > > - chunkingEnabled > > > > > > > - blockIfQueueFull > > > > > > > - compressionType > > > > > > > - hashingScheme > > > > > > > - messageRoutingMode > > > > > > > - batchingMaxPublishDelay > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Implementation Strategy* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ideally, we need a way to set default message producer > behavior (for > > > > > > > functions) on a cluster-wide level. However, operators may want > > > > specific > > > > > > > settings to be used for certain functions. (We can't assume > that > > > > > > everyone > > > > > > > will want all functions in a cluster to have the same producer > > > > > > settings.) > > > > > > > When an operator changes the cluster-wide producer defaults, > they > > > > need a > > > > > > > way to be able to roll out the changes to functions without > > > > > > significantly > > > > > > > disrupting messaging flows in production environments. They > also > > > need > > > > a > > > > > > > simple way to rollback changes in case a change to function > producer > > > > > > > settings results in undesired behavior. However, not all users > will > > > > want > > > > > > > function updates to replace existing function producer > settings, > > > > > > especially > > > > > > > for functions that have been given custom producer settings > (at the > > > > > > > per-function level.) Due to this difference in use cases, there > > > needs > > > > > > to be > > > > > > > a way to allow an operator to specify what update behavior they > > > want. > > > > > > For a > > > > > > > given update, the user should be able to specify if: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Existing function producer settings will be replaced by > > > > > > cluster-wide > > > > > > > defaults (unless overridden by producer settings provided in > the > > > > > > > request), > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > 2. Existing function producer settings will *not* be replaced > by > > > > > > > cluster-wide defaults (unless overridden by producer settings > > > > > > provided > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > the request). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, the two orders of precedence are: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. newProducerConfig > cluster-wide defaults > > > > > existingProducerConfig > > > > > > > 2. newProducerConfig > existingProducerConfig > cluster-wide > > > > defaults > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We can add a boolean property to UpdateOptions to allow the > > > precedence > > > > > > to > > > > > > > be specified. Since we don't want to introduce unexpected side > > > effects > > > > > > > during an update, the default precedence should prefer the > > > > > > > existingProducerConfig over cluster-wide defaults. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To ensure that the desired producer settings (after > calculating the > > > > > > > settings from defaults + overrides) are available when > creating the > > > > > > > producers (on any cluster), we need to add these producer > settings > > > to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > function protobuf definition. Also, to ensure that settings > can be > > > > > > properly > > > > > > > validated at the time they are submitted, we need validation > in two > > > > > > places: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. When cluster-wide configs are loaded upon broker startup > > > > > > > 2. When a function is registered or updated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As it would be impractical to check every registered function > > > > definition > > > > > > > during broker startup, most of the validation needs to occur > during > > > > > > > function registration or update. However, during broker > startup, we > > > > can > > > > > > at > > > > > > > least validate that the configurations exist and throw an > exception > > > if > > > > > > they > > > > > > > are invalid. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As any configuration exceptions thrown when the producer is > created > > > > > > would > > > > > > > bubble up to the client, we need to ensure that the final > > > > configurations > > > > > > > are valid when a function is registered or updated to ensure > there > > > are > > > > > > > exceptions when the producer is created. This requires > computing the > > > > > > > producer settings (according to the desired precedence) during > > > > function > > > > > > > registration or update. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When a function is registered, existing producer settings do > not > > > exist > > > > > > for > > > > > > > it, so we simply need to get cluster-wide defaults and > override them > > > > > > with > > > > > > > any specific producer settings provided in the FunctionConfig's > > > > > > > ProducerConfig (submitted as a REST parameter.) After the > initial > > > > > > > registration, those computed settings will then be persisted in > > > > > > bookkeeper > > > > > > > with the function definition. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When a function is updated, we also need to address the > existing > > > > > > > producerConfig, and for this, we need to check the desired > override > > > > > > > precedence (as explained above) when computing the final > producer > > > > > > settings > > > > > > > that will be persisted with the function. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Modifications* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As WorkerConfig is readily available when functions are > registered > > > and > > > > > > > updated, we can put new settings into function_worker.yml and > can > > > load > > > > > > and > > > > > > > validate them via WorkerConfig.load(..). To prevent introducing > > > > breaking > > > > > > > changes, parameters will have defaults assigned in > WorkerConfig that > > > > > > > conform to current expected behavior, like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Data > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Accessors(chain = true) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public class FunctionDefaultsConfig implements Serializable { > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @FieldContext( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doc = "Disables default message batching between > > > > functions" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > protected boolean batchingDisabled = false; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @FieldContext( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doc = "Enables default message chunking between > > > functions" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > protected boolean chunkingEnabled = false; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @FieldContext( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doc = "Disables default behavior to block when message > > > > > > queue is > > > > > > > full" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > protected boolean blockIfQueueFullDisabled = false; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @FieldContext( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doc = "Default compression type" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > protected String compressionType = "LZ4"; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @FieldContext( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doc = "Default hashing scheme" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > protected String hashingScheme = "Murmur3_32Hash"; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @FieldContext( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doc = "Default hashing scheme" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > protected String messageRoutingMode = "CustomPartition"; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @FieldContext( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > doc = "Default max publish delay (in milliseconds) when > > > > > > message > > > > > > > batching is enabled" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > protected long batchingMaxPublishDelay = 10L; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public ClusterFunctionProducerDefaults buildProducerDefaults() > > > > > > > throws InvalidWorkerConfigDefaultException > > > > > > > { > > > > > > > > > > > > > > return new > > > > > > > ClusterFunctionProducerDefaults(this.isBatchingDisabled() > > > > > > > , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this.isChunkingEnabled(), > > > > > > > this.isBlockIfQueueFullDisabled(), > > > > > > > this.getCompressionType(), > > > > > > > > > > > > > > this.getHashingScheme(), > > > this.getMessageRoutingMode(), > > > > > > this > > > > > > > .getBatchingMaxPublishDelay()); > > > > > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public FunctionDefaultsConfig() { > > > > > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The additional section in function_worker.yml will look like > this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > functionDefaults: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > batchingDisabled: true > > > > > > > > > > > > > > chunkingEnabled: false > > > > > > > > > > > > > > blockIfQueueFullDisabled: false > > > > > > > > > > > > > > batchingMaxPublishDelay: 12 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > compressionType: ZLIB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hashingScheme: JavaStringHash > > > > > > > > > > > > > > messageRoutingMode: RoundRobinPartition > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > During function update, we can use a new boolean option, > > > > > > > ignoreExistingFunctionDefaults, to toggle precedence: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Data > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @NoArgsConstructor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ApiModel(value = "UpdateOptions", description = "Options while > > > > updating > > > > > > > function defaults or the sink") > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public class UpdateOptions { > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ApiModelProperty( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > value = "Whether or not to update the auth data", > > > > > > > > > > > > > > name = "update-auth-data") > > > > > > > > > > > > > > private boolean updateAuthData = false; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @ApiModelProperty( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > value="Whether or not to ignore any existing function > > > > > > > defaults", > > > > > > > > > > > > > > name ="ignore-existing-function-defaults") > > > > > > > > > > > > > > private boolean ignoreExistingFunctionDefaults = false; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To ensure that function producer settings don't get modified > > > > > > unexpectedly > > > > > > > by an update, ignoreExistingFunctionDefaults = false by > default. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The updated ProducerConfig will contain the new properties and > a > > > > method > > > > > > to > > > > > > > merge an incoming ProducerConfig with an existing > ProducerConfig. > > > (The > > > > > > > merged ProducerConfig will use the incoming ProducerConfig > > > properties > > > > > > when > > > > > > > they exist and will use existing ProducerConfig properties > > > otherwise.) > > > > > > To > > > > > > > ensure we don't need to force operators to provide those > > > > ProducerConfig > > > > > > > properties with every create or update, they must be nullable, > not > > > > > > > primitive (e.g. Boolean instead of boolean.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To support the additional properties, FunctionConfigUtils (and > any > > > > > > similar > > > > > > > classes) will need to be modified to correctly translate > between the > > > > > > > ProducerConfig and the protobuf ProducerSpec. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The updated ProducerSpec in Function.proto will look like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > message ProducerSpec { > > > > > > > > > > > > > > int32 maxPendingMessages = 1; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > int32 maxPendingMessagesAcrossPartitions = 2; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bool useThreadLocalProducers = 3; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CryptoSpec cryptoSpec = 4; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > string batchBuilder = 5; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bool batchingDisabled = 6; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bool chunkingEnabled = 7; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bool blockIfQueueFullDisabled = 8; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CompressionType compressionType = 9; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HashingScheme hashingScheme = 10; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MessageRoutingMode messageRoutingMode = 11; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > int64 batchingMaxPublishDelay = 12; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To support these new parameters during local run and for > > > convenience, > > > > we > > > > > > > should be able to specify them in the Admin CLI and in local > run > > > > modes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For local run, as function_worker.yml is not used, these > parameters > > > > will > > > > > > > have defaults and be primitive values: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Parameter(names = "--clusterFunctionBatchingDisabled", > description > > > = > > > > > > > "Disable > > > > > > > the default message batching behavior for functions", hidden = > true) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public boolean clusterFunctionBatchingDisabled = false; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Parameter(names = "--clusterFunctionChunkingEnabled", > description = > > > > > > "The > > > > > > > default message chunking behavior for functions", hidden = > true) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public boolean clusterFunctionChunkingEnabled = false; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Parameter(names = "--clusterFunctionBlockIfQueueFullDisabled", > > > > > > description > > > > > > > = "Disable the default blocking behavior for functions when > queue is > > > > > > > full", hidden > > > > > > > = true) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public boolean clusterFunctionBlockIfQueueFullDisabled = false; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Parameter(names = "--clusterFunctionCompressionTypeDefault", > > > > > > > description = "The > > > > > > > default Compression Type for functions", hidden = true) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public String clusterFunctionCompressionTypeDefault = "LZ4"; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Parameter(names = "--clusterFunctionHashingSchemeDefault", > > > > description > > > > > > = > > > > > > > "The > > > > > > > default Hashing Scheme for functions", hidden = true) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public String clusterFunctionHashingSchemeDefault = > > > "Murmur3_32Hash"; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Parameter(names = > "--clusterFunctionMessageRoutingModeDefault", > > > > > > > description > > > > > > > = "The default Message Routing Mode for functions", hidden = > true) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public String clusterFunctionMessageRoutingModeDefault = > > > > > > "CustomPartition"; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Parameter(names = > > > "--clusterFunctionBatchingMaxPublishDelayDefault", > > > > > > > description > > > > > > > = "The default max publish delay (in milliseconds) for > functions > > > when > > > > > > > message batching is enabled", hidden = true) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public long clusterFunctionBatchingMaxPublishDelayDefault = > 10L; > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Admin CLI, parameters can be provided in a similar way, > but they > > > > > > will > > > > > > > not have defaults (i.e. Boolean instead of boolean) since > parameters > > > > > > should > > > > > > > be null to ensure non-provided configs are obtained from > > > WorkerConfig. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To handle the logic of selecting the property from an incoming > > > > > > > producerConfig vs the producerDefaults object (from > WorkerConfig), > > > we > > > > > > can > > > > > > > use a FunctionDefaultsMediator to handle this. That interface > looks > > > > like > > > > > > > this and gives us flexibility to handle mediation for specific > > > > > > properties > > > > > > > without needing to convert the entire object. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > public interface FunctionDefaultsMediator { > > > > > > > > > > > > > > boolean isBatchingDisabled(); > > > > > > > > > > > > > > boolean isChunkingEnabled(); > > > > > > > > > > > > > > boolean isBlockIfQueueFullDisabled(); > > > > > > > > > > > > > > CompressionType getCompressionType(); > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Function.CompressionType getCompressionTypeProto(); > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HashingScheme getHashingScheme(); > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Function.HashingScheme getHashingSchemeProto(); > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MessageRoutingMode getMessageRoutingMode(); > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Function.MessageRoutingMode getMessageRoutingModeProto(); > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Long getBatchingMaxPublishDelay(); > > > > > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (Alternatively, we could remove the Proto methods from the > mediator > > > > and > > > > > > > just use FunctionConfigUtils.convert(..) to translate between > the > > > > > > protobuf > > > > > > > ProducerSpec and the Java ProducerConfig.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Testing* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In terms of testing, many of this functionality will be > covered by > > > > > > existing > > > > > > > tests in the pulsar-functions module. However, we need to test > each > > > of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > new classes, as well as these behaviors: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - functionRegistration (with different provided ProducerConfig > > > > > > > properties) > > > > > > > - functionUpdate (for ignoreExistingFunctionDefaults=true and > > > > > > > ignoreExistingFunctionDefaults=false) > > > > > > > - loading function_worker.yml into WorkerConfig > > > > > > > - throwing exceptions correctly when invalid parameters are > > > > provided > > > > > > > - converting between ProducerSpec and ProducerConfig > > > > > > > - correctly handling precedence when computing the final > > > > > > ProducerConfig > > > > > > > values > > > > > > > - creating producers > > > > > > > - ensuring functionality is consistent across runtimes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd like feedback on this proposal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Devin G. Bost > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >