Hi Don't get me wrong: I'm with you, I just provided context.
Hibernate was not an option at that time because it was GPL licensed (now it's Apache licensed since Hibernate 7.0.0.beta5). I think using Panache+Hibernate could be a good "alternative" to JDBC. I will PoC on that. Regards JB On Sat, Feb 7, 2026 at 10:43 PM Romain Manni-Bucau <[email protected]> wrote: > Le sam. 7 févr. 2026 à 22:27, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]> a > écrit : > > > Hi > > > > JPA was used initially (with EclipseLink) but it was not super convenient > > and had limitations in some of our use cases. That’s why we switched to > > JDBC with PostgreSQL as first candidate. > > Just for context. > > > > Hmm, proposal was to use hibernate more than jpa since you do use quarkus, > from my window: > > 1. it does abstract databases (its main pro even if it should be something > else, ack) > 2. it enables to issue plain JDBC if needed (but not really IMHO) > 3. it has stateless session so perf should be a no brainer if properly used > compared to current usage > > Ultimately the dialect part can be reused (or even redone as we did in > batchee years ago), but sticking to postgres is very limiting community > wide IMHO, was my main feedback. > > Hope it makes more sense this way. > > > > > > Regards > > JB > > > > Le sam. 7 févr. 2026 à 09:34, Romain Manni-Bucau <[email protected]> > a > > écrit : > > > > > Hmm, my point is that an extension point is ok for 3rd parties or > vendor$ > > > but not end users in general so there it means postgres will be part of > > the > > > stack so an end user requirement. > > > > > > If the issue is just about wiring the code or reusing the > > > dialect/dictionary please let me know. > > > > > > Using jdbc rewrite driver is a pain to maintain and main current option > > to > > > not have to patch the whole product due to quarkus bundling which > doesn't > > > ensable much extensibility compared to a real CDI container - specific > > > discovery and deployment bundles. > > > > > > This is why i think jpa stateless mode would be worth it and solves > perf > > > and abstraction issues. > > > > > > > > > Romain Manni-Bucau > > > @rmannibucau <https://x.com/rmannibucau> | .NET Blog > > > <https://dotnetbirdie.github.io/> | Blog < > https://rmannibucau.github.io/ > > > > > > | Old > > > Blog <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github > > > <https://github.com/rmannibucau> | LinkedIn > > > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book > > > < > > > > > > https://www.packtpub.com/en-us/product/java-ee-8-high-performance-9781788473064 > > > > > > > Javaccino founder (Java/.NET service - contact via linkedin) > > > > > > Le sam. 7 févr. 2026, 08:42, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]> a > > > écrit : > > > > > > > Hi Romain > > > > > > > > I agree, and it's what we do with both JDBC and the NoSQL efforts. > > > > > > > > I think there are two aspects: > > > > - supporting some store backend/RDBMS by default, using > > > quarkus/quarkiverse > > > > extension. Here, we go with PostgreSQL by default. It's a bit > > opinionated > > > > on this part. > > > > - allow the users to support their own backend (like MSSQL), and yes, > > > > that's clearly the intent. But there's also some "adaptations" to do > > > > depending of the capabilities (remember the adapter we had to do in > > > > ActiveMQ to efficiently support the different RDBMs). > > > > > > > > So, my suggestion is to remove H2 "standard" support, but users can > > > > still use it if they want (and contributing the "adapters"). > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > JB > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 6, 2026 at 10:08 PM Romain Manni-Bucau < > > > [email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > > > > are stateless sessions of hibernate that slow compared to JDBC - it > > > > > shouldn't if well configured/used, in particular with the pattern > > used > > > > > right now which still does object projection? > > > > > idea behind is that enabling more database sounds the way to go to > > get > > > > more > > > > > audience - I'd love to use MSSQL cause it is what we have there and > > > know > > > > > how to run instead of adding postgres just for polaris for ex. > > > > > if stateless mode is ok then H2 & friends are no brainer to keep. > > > > > > > > > > Romain Manni-Bucau > > > > > @rmannibucau <https://x.com/rmannibucau> | .NET Blog > > > > > <https://dotnetbirdie.github.io/> | Blog < > > > https://rmannibucau.github.io/ > > > > > > > > > > | Old > > > > > Blog <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github > > > > > <https://github.com/rmannibucau> | LinkedIn > > > > > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.packtpub.com/en-us/product/java-ee-8-high-performance-9781788473064 > > > > > > > > > > > Javaccino founder (Java/.NET service - contact via linkedin) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le ven. 6 févr. 2026 à 21:47, Russell Spitzer < > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > +1 Remove H2, Postgres setup in docker is only slightly more > > annoying > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 6, 2026 at 1:23 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré < > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess the purpose is mostly for test/local "demo" purposes > > > without > > > > > the > > > > > > > need of RDBMS service. > > > > > > > That said, with Docker, it's not very painful to have > PostgreSQL > > > > > > including > > > > > > > for local test/demo use cases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree to remove H2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > JB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 6, 2026 at 7:08 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov < > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm just wondering whether people find value in maintaining > H2 > > > > > schemas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I doubt H2 has production use cases. Polaris builds include > it > > > only > > > > > in > > > > > > > test > > > > > > > > configurations, it seems. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Would it be reasonable to drop H2 to concentrate on > PostgreSQL? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WDYT? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Dmitri. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
