A helm + source release from `main` SGTM. Just to be clear: we'll be releasing the full source (including java) bundle from the latest `main`, but will only publish binaries for helm charts 1.0.1, right?
Cheers, Dmitri. On Mon, Jul 21, 2025 at 7:17 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> wrote: > Thanks for your feedback Robert. > > What about doing Helm Chart release now from the main repo (just with a > dedicated tag and source distro) and then move forward on separate repo > after this release ? > We can “unblock” the users with an official release and then prepare the > next release. > > Regards > JB > > Le lun. 21 juil. 2025 à 10:54, Robert Stupp <sn...@snazy.de> a écrit : > > > Hi all, > > > > regarding the consensus, let's quickly recap the options here: > > > > 1. Keep Helm chart releases with the "main" Polaris release > > 2. Separate Helm charts releases > > > > For 1) there's nothing to be done. Helm Charts releases would be > > drafted ("RC") and eventually released ("GA") as an orthogonal effort, > > but technically part of the semi-automatic release process. > > For 2) there are a couple considerations: Helm Charts won't be covered > > by the semi-automatic release process that's currently being worked > > on. A separate manual release process and guide would be needed. > > > > Another aspect is the compatibility matrix of the Helm Chart to > > Polaris. To ensure compatibility, an exhaustive CI test matrix is IMHO > > required. For option 1, it could mean that the Helm Chart version must > > be equal to the Polaris version. For option 2, the CI test matrix is > > IMHO mandatory, which in turn raises the requirement to move the > > helm-charts to either a separate Git repository or polaris-tools. > > > > I would personally prefer option 2, but that is quite some work. > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 21, 2025 at 10:43 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <j...@nanthrax.net> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Yun > > > > > > I would propose to focus on the following: > > > 1. We have a "isolated" release cycle for Helm Chart > > > 2. We do a Helm Chart release as soon as we need to fix/unblock users > > > > > > Snapshot is not a release (official one), so, not sure it actually > > > helps (or just for testing purpose). > > > > > > In order to move forward, I propose: > > > 1. Move helm chart in a separate repo > > > (https://github.com/apache/polaris-helm-chart), including the > > > corresponding GH Actions > > > 2. We prepare a new "official" release on this repo > > > > > > If we have a consensus here, I'm happy to tackle that. > > > > > > Thoughts ? > > > > > > Regards > > > JB > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 21, 2025 at 4:14 AM yun zou <yunzou.colost...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I think we are separating the discussion into two parts: the long > term > > plan for Helm Chart release, > > > > and the short term plan to mitigate the use issue. > > > > > > > > For the long term, it sounds like we would like to go with a separate > > release for Helm Chart, and want to > > > > move Helm Chart to a separate repo. > > > > > > > > For a short term plan, I think we need to answer two questions first: > > > > 1) Whether we think it is important to unblock the use case as soon > as > > possible? > > > > 2) If we do want to unblock the use case as soon as possible, what > > would be the approach to adopt? > > > > > > > > If there are many use cases, and there is still a long time until the > > next formal release, it is probably > > > > worth the effort to get an approach to unblock the users soon. > > > > > > > > If we do want to unblock the use case soon, we probably should start > > the process as soon as possible, > > > > either the "snapshot" approach or just do a 1.1 release. It seems > that > > people do prefer to just > > > > release 1.1 with patch. > > > > > > > > Given the fact that we only receive one complaint now, maybe we can > > wait for a while to see if there are > > > > more complaints and then decide. > > > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Yun > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 20, 2025 at 9:48 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré < > j...@nanthrax.net> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Hi, > > > >> > > > >> I guess you don't mean release, because a release (nightly or not) > at > > > >> Apache requires a vote and approval from PPMC + IPMC members. > > > >> If you mean, nightly "snapshots" Helm chart build, it's OK. > > > >> > > > >> However, it should be clearly for testing (it's nightly/snapshot so > > > >> it's not for production). For production, as we plan independent > > > >> release cycle for Helm Chart, we should just do a "regular" release. > > > >> > > > >> Regards > > > >> JB > > > >> > > > >> On Fri, Jul 18, 2025 at 10:39 PM yun zou < > yunzou.colost...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > The purpose of a nightly Helm Chart release is to *quickly* > unblock > > users, > > > >> > as in this issue: https://github.com/apache/polaris/issues/2030. > > > >> > > > > >> > The release process for the nightly Helm Chart would follow the > > same approach > > > >> > as the current one—the main difference is that we’d need to > > publish it to a > > > >> > separate release repository. As @Jean-Baptiste Onofré mentioned, > > we also > > > >> > need to include the source in the release, which is not done yet. > > > >> > > > > >> > Alternatively, we could opt for a formal 1.0.1 release if that's > > preferred, though > > > >> > it may take longer for users to actually be able to use it. If > that > > approach is preferred > > > >> > and we agree that unblocking users quickly is important, then it > > might be best > > > >> > to start the process as soon as possible. > > > >> > > > > >> > Best Regards, > > > >> > Yun > > > >> > > > > >> > On Fri, Jul 18, 2025 at 11:29 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov < > > di...@apache.org> wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Sorry, I'm still not clear on the technical details of nightly > helm > > > >> >> releases. I imagine any official release will need a vote. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> If the intent of nightly helm releases is to allow end users to > > use them in > > > >> >> their deployment environments (not just for testing), I do not > > think it > > > >> >> would be a good idea due to lack of control of what actually goes > > into > > > >> >> those artifacts. Users who want to use the very latest helm > charts > > can > > > >> >> always track `main` at the source level. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> In any case, since we obviously have some user demand for a helm > > chart fix, > > > >> >> I suppose we could do a 1.0.1 release from the old 1.0.0 release > > branch by > > > >> >> back-porting just helm chart fixes there and using the same > manual > > process > > > >> >> as for 1.0.0. This will not require adding a separate source > > bundle for the > > > >> >> charts (it's part of the normal release already). > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Cheers, > > > >> >> Dmitri. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> On Fri, Jul 18, 2025 at 1:55 PM yun zou < > > yunzou.colost...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > This is based on what was mentioned in the first email > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > Meanwhile, we can start to release the nightly Helm Chart as > a > > quick > > > >> >> > > solution for any users trying the new release with JDBC > > backend. Thoughts > > > >> >> > > and volunteers for this one? > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > I think the proposal is to do a non-formal release for Helm > > Chart with the > > > >> >> > current master, and we will need a different place (not the > same > > as the > > > >> >> > current > > > >> >> > helm chart release) to publish this Helm Chart release. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > Best Regards, > > > >> >> > Yun > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > On Fri, Jul 18, 2025 at 9:03 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov < > > di...@apache.org> > > > >> >> > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > Hi Yun, > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > What do you mean by a "quick nightly release" for helm > charts? > > How will > > > >> >> > it > > > >> >> > > work technically? > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > Thanks, > > > >> >> > > Dmitri. > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > On Fri, Jul 18, 2025 at 11:54 AM yun zou < > > yunzou.colost...@gmail.com> > > > >> >> > > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > Hi Team, > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > I'd like to bring this thread back to the top. Aside from > > the long-term > > > >> >> > > > plan to separate > > > >> >> > > > the release, are we still considering a quick nightly > > release to > > > >> >> > unblock > > > >> >> > > > users, or are > > > >> >> > > > we ok to wait for the next scheduled release (seems the > next > > scheduled > > > >> >> > > > release is around Aug 20th) ? > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > Be > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > On Mon, Jul 14, 2025 at 11:38 AM yun zou < > > yunzou.colost...@gmail.com> > > > >> >> > > > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > If we decide to adopt an independent release cadence for > > the Helm > > > >> >> > > > > chart, it might > > > >> >> > > > > be more intuitive to host it in a separate repository. > > While this > > > >> >> > would > > > >> >> > > > > increase the > > > >> >> > > > > effort required to maintain compatibility between Helm > > chart releases > > > >> >> > > and > > > >> >> > > > > Polaris > > > >> >> > > > > releases—particularly around testing and documentation—it > > could be a > > > >> >> > > > > worthwhile > > > >> >> > > > > trade-off if we start seeing frequent divergence in > > release timelines > > > >> >> > > > > between the two > > > >> >> > > > > (whether the chart moves faster or slower). That said, if > > Polaris > > > >> >> > > > > continues to release > > > >> >> > > > > at a fast pace, the added complexity may not be > necessary. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > In parallel with this discussion on separate release > > cadences for the > > > >> >> > > > Helm > > > >> >> > > > > chart, another > > > >> >> > > > > important point raised in this thread is whether we > should > > consider > > > >> >> > > doing > > > >> >> > > > > nightly build > > > >> >> > > > > releases in the short term? > > > >> >> > > > > This could help address the JDBC use case mentioned here: > > > >> >> > > > > https://github.com/apache/polaris/issues/2030. > > > >> >> > > > > might be helpful in unblocking that use case and could > > support > > > >> >> > > onboarding > > > >> >> > > > > more users > > > >> >> > > > > ahead of the next official Polaris release. > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > Best Regards, > > > >> >> > > > > Yun > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > On Mon, Jul 14, 2025 at 10:42 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov < > > > >> >> > di...@apache.org > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> I also think that the compatibility between helm charts > > and Polaris > > > >> >> > > > >> binaries will need more attention if we use a separate > > repository. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> However, from my POV I'd expect helm charts to get > > changes / > > > >> >> > > > contributions > > > >> >> > > > >> independently of the Polaris Server code (for all sorts > of > > > >> >> > deployment > > > >> >> > > > >> choices), so having it in a separate repository is > > probably going > > > >> >> > to > > > >> >> > > > make > > > >> >> > > > >> maintenance easier (to recap: I originally supported > more > > frequent / > > > >> >> > > > >> independent chart releases too). > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> We could release Polaris Server patch releases with Helm > > changes but > > > >> >> > > > >> without server code changes, but I guess this kind of > > release > > > >> >> > process > > > >> >> > > > will > > > >> >> > > > >> be error-prone and more difficult for release managers > > (for having > > > >> >> > to > > > >> >> > > > pay > > > >> >> > > > >> close attention to what needs to be cherry-picked). > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> +1 to apache/polaris-helm-chart > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Cheers, > > > >> >> > > > >> Dmitri. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> On Mon, Jul 14, 2025 at 8:02 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré < > > > >> >> > j...@nanthrax.net > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > Hi > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> > I'm fine having a dedicated repo for helm chart, it > all > > depends on > > > >> >> > > > >> > what we want to release: > > > >> >> > > > >> > 1. If we just want to release helm charts "package", > > then helm > > > >> >> > > charts > > > >> >> > > > >> > can stay in the polaris repo (as so part of the source > > > >> >> > distribution) > > > >> >> > > > >> > 2. if we want to release a complete different source > > distribution > > > >> >> > > and > > > >> >> > > > >> > package for Helm Charts, then we can have a complete > > separate > > > >> >> > > > >> > repository. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> > Apache projects use both. For instance, Airflow is > > using (1), > > > >> >> > > whereas > > > >> >> > > > >> > Pulsar or Ozone are using (2). > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> > If we have a consensus for a separate repo, I would > > suggest > > > >> >> > > > >> > apache/polaris-helm-chart repository. I can create. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> > Regards > > > >> >> > > > >> > JB > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> > On Mon, Jul 14, 2025 at 1:25 PM Alexandre Dutra < > > > >> >> > adu...@apache.org> > > > >> >> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > Hi all, > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > For reference and completeness, this has also been > > previously > > > >> >> > > > >> > > discussed in a much older thread: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/428xb6dfrmm7xgr91p2dxoy8ptcyovs2 > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > So far the consensus was, as Yufei pointed out, to > > release the > > > >> >> > > Helm > > > >> >> > > > >> > > chart along with the Polaris server release (+docker > > images, > > > >> >> > > etc.) – > > > >> >> > > > >> > > mostly for the sake of simplicity. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > I confess I'm torn on the idea of separate releases > > and/or > > > >> >> > moving > > > >> >> > > > the > > > >> >> > > > >> > > chart to the polaris-tools repo. I fear that the > > chart could > > > >> >> > > quickly > > > >> >> > > > >> > > lag behind Polaris itself, especially when > > configuration options > > > >> >> > > > >> > > change. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > But if that is now the preferred option, I'm fine > > with that. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > Thanks, > > > >> >> > > > >> > > Alex > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > On Sun, Jul 13, 2025 at 5:27 AM Yong Zheng < > > yzh...@apache.org> > > > >> >> > > > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > I also likes the idea of moving the chart to a > > different repo > > > >> >> > > > (some > > > >> >> > > > >> > obvious downsize are we will need to move some work > > around and > > > >> >> > > > duplicate > > > >> >> > > > >> > some build pipeline etc.). Also, another thing we will > > loss is the > > > >> >> > > > >> > published helm doc (assuming we still want it, > > otherwise, just ask > > > >> >> > > > >> people > > > >> >> > > > >> > to get the info from README.md from git repo). Other > > than these, I > > > >> >> > > > don't > > > >> >> > > > >> > have a concern. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > On 2025/07/12 11:21:53 Robert Stupp wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > If the consensus is to have a different release > > cadences for > > > >> >> > > the > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > Polars helm chart and Polaris "server", I > propose > > to move > > > >> >> > the > > > >> >> > > > helm > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > charts to polaris-tools. One difference between > > the two > > > >> >> > repos > > > >> >> > > is > > > >> >> > > > >> that > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > the "main" repo eventually gets (semi) automatic > > releases > > > >> >> > that > > > >> >> > > > >> might > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > get confused with rather manually driven > > helm-chart releases > > > >> >> > > (it > > > >> >> > > > >> will > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > have to use and check against Git tags and > > potentially > > > >> >> > version > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > branches). Therefore the polaris-tools repo > > sounds more > > > >> >> > > > >> appropriate, > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > because there are already multiple "sub > projects". > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > Another reason to move the helm-charts to > > polaris-tools is > > > >> >> > > that > > > >> >> > > > >> the > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > helm-charts, if released independently, become > > suitable for > > > >> >> > > > >> multiple > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > Polaris versions, which requires tests/CI > against > > multiple > > > >> >> > > > Polaris > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > versions. Letting pretty much every change to > the > > "main" > > > >> >> > > > >> repository > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > trigger CI for a potentially big > > helm-chart/Polaris > > > >> >> > > test-matrix > > > >> >> > > > >> seems > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > to be an unnecessary waste of CI time. In > > polaris-tools, all > > > >> >> > > CI > > > >> >> > > > >> jobs > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > are "scoped" to a particular "root path". > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > Different release cadences also mean to > maintain a > > > >> >> > > > "compatibility > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > matrix", not immediately, but in the (near?) > > future. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > Thoughts? > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 9:08 AM Yufei Gu < > > > >> >> > > flyrain...@gmail.com> > > > >> >> > > > >> > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > Sounds good. I think Apache Airflow did the > > exact same > > > >> >> > thing > > > >> >> > > > by > > > >> >> > > > >> > publishing > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > both Helm Chart source and Helm Chart binary > > package. We > > > >> >> > > still > > > >> >> > > > >> > need to > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > figure out a few things: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > 1. What does the Helm Chart version look like? > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > 2. Publishing a version map between Helm Chart > > and Polaris > > > >> >> > > > >> server > > > >> >> > > > >> > as the > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > part of Helm Chart doc. For example, Helm > Chart > > version > > > >> >> > > 1.2.0 > > > >> >> > > > >> > works with > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > Polaris server 0.9.0, 1.0.0, and 1.1.0. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > 3. What's the default docker image tag? I'd > > suggest using > > > >> >> > > the > > > >> >> > > > >> > latest > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > Polaris release version(e.g., > 1.0.0-incubating) > > at the > > > >> >> > time > > > >> >> > > > the > > > >> >> > > > >> > Helm Chart > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > was published. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > 4. Location would be easy to decide, we can > > continue to > > > >> >> > > > publish > > > >> >> > > > >> it > > > >> >> > > > >> > to > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > dist.apache.org as 1.0.0-incubating did. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > If we decide to release the Helm chart on its > > own cadence, > > > >> >> > > we > > > >> >> > > > >> > don't need a > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > nightly Helm Chart release at this time. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > Yufei > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > On Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 11:32 PM Jean-Baptiste > > Onofré < > > > >> >> > > > >> > j...@nanthrax.net> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > Hi > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > It's not a problem for me to release "part" > > of Polaris > > > >> >> > > like > > > >> >> > > > >> Helm > > > >> >> > > > >> > chart. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > However, the release has to be "ASF valid", > > meaning that > > > >> >> > > the > > > >> >> > > > >> > release > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > needs to include source distribution. Today, > > we don't > > > >> >> > have > > > >> >> > > > >> source > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > distribution only for Helm chart (it's > global > > source > > > >> >> > > > >> distribution > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > including Helm sources). > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > So, I propose to include a source tar gradle > > task in > > > >> >> > Helm > > > >> >> > > > >> chart > > > >> >> > > > >> > (with > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > signing and checksum). If we do that, no > > problem. I can > > > >> >> > > > take a > > > >> >> > > > >> > crack > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > on this :) > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > Regards > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > JB > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 12, 2025 at 1:30 AM Yufei Gu < > > > >> >> > > > >> flyrain...@gmail.com> > > > >> >> > > > >> > wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > While testing the freshly-minted > > 1.0.0-incubating > > > >> >> > > release, > > > >> >> > > > >> we > > > >> >> > > > >> > noticed > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > something odd: the Polaris release has > > relational-jdbc > > > >> >> > > > >> > persistence, yet > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > the > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > Helm chart only understands the legacy > > eclipselink. > > > >> >> > Here > > > >> >> > > > is > > > >> >> > > > >> > the issue: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/polaris/issues/2030. > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > We previously made the decision to publish > > Helm Chart > > > >> >> > > with > > > >> >> > > > >> > Polaris src > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > and > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > bin, check the ML thread: > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/d1vf7xpn6nkzp8gbh417m8qb58tkpcqz. > > > >> >> > > We > > > >> >> > > > >> may > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > revisit the approach. I think it makes > more > > sense to > > > >> >> > > > release > > > >> >> > > > >> > the Helm > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > chart > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > on its own cadence. Not all Polaris users > > need Helm > > > >> >> > > > charts, > > > >> >> > > > >> > plus Helm > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > chart > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > tweaking happens commonly between Polaris > > server > > > >> >> > > releases. > > > >> >> > > > >> > WDYT? > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > Meanwhile, we can start to release the > > nightly Helm > > > >> >> > > Chart > > > >> >> > > > >> as a > > > >> >> > > > >> > quick > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > solution for any users trying the new > > release with > > > >> >> > JDBC > > > >> >> > > > >> > backend. Thoughts > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > and volunteers for this one? > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > Yufei > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > > >> >> > > > > > >> >> > > > >