On 26 March 2013 18:16, Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 9:34 AM, Alexandro Colorado <j...@oooes.org> wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Jürgen Schmidt <jogischm...@gmail.com > > >wrote: > > > > > On 3/26/13 3:35 PM, Fernando Cassia wrote: > > > > On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > > > > > >> My ordered preference would be 1, 3 > > > > > > > > > > > > yeah, great *sarcasm*, let's add another bullet point to a microsoft > > > > presentation titled 'how Microsoft Office is better than > > > > OpenOfffice.org".... OO.o lacks database? check!" > > > > > > I don't see any sarcasm here but a valid order to address this problem. > > > > > > Do we really want compete with MS? Or do we want provide an open source > > > and open standard based office productivity suite that can do most of > > > the daily tasks of common users of such an office suite? I personally > > > think we want the second and want help people who are open minded to > > > solve their problems first and want to save money for other things. > > > > > > > I am amazed how you select your own questions and then answer them as if > we > > have to choose one or the other. I think we want to compete with > microsoft, > > we have done it for years. I dont think we want to stop competing with > > microsoft. That's why many users ask about us developing a mobile/cloud > > offering. Because they want to see a strong open source competition to > the > > office suite. > > > > If we wanted the second, then Calligra would be by far more advanced to > us, > > since they have a more developed suite with many more components that > what > > we currently ship. Kexi is by far more developed than Base, and is > somewhat > > more flexible than Base using SQLite as the embeded DB and MySQL as part > of > > the QtDB module. Let alone other modules like Kivio (which users have > also > > asked for a Visio-like module). > > > > > > > > > > > > If MS is better in certain areas users have to ask if they need it and > > > if they depend on the feature. In case of companies it always possible > > > to have a mixed deployment of 95% OpenOffice and 5% percent MS Office > or > > > something like that. > > > > > > We are a very good and high quality alternative but not always a 1:1 > > > replacement. It really depends what you have to do. I personally can > > > live perfectly with OpenOffice. > > > > > > > > > > > My opinion is that maybe Sun put HSQLDB in there to fill in the need > > for > > > a > > > > resident database engine, which in the commercial offering > (StarOffice) > > > was > > > > filled by Adabas D. > > > > > > > > One can still read the positive reviews of StarOffice where the > > database > > > > module is praised: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/Sun-Microsystems-0614647643195-StarOffice-7/dp/B0000DG2N4 > > > > > > > > //// > > > > * StarOffice Adabas (database application) is included (getting MS > > Access > > > > requires buying MS Office Pro) and is easier to use than MS Access. > > > Adabas > > > > integrates with other StarOffice apps so, for instance, users can > > easily > > > > create mail merge documents. > > > > /// > > > > > > > > So, if HSQLDB is not up to par, maybe the realistic solution is to > > find a > > > > database engine lightweight and powerful enough to take the role that > > > > Adabas D had in StarOffice?. > > > > > > > I would think SQLite is powerful enough to handle this job, however I am > > not sure how license compatible is o if it gets the same treatment as > > python and other components shipped with the suite. > > > > > > > > > > > > FC > > > > PS: I read this whole thread as 'we don't want to maintain this code, > > > since > > > > we don't understand it, and we fear it's buggy'. But the solution in > > any > > > > case is replacing the database module for another, or improving the > > > > existing code, not making excuses for saying 'people don't use > > databases > > > > after all so it should be gone'. > > > > > > > Actually spreadsheets shouldnt be used as database, so there is a strong > > need to easily migrate those huge spreadsheets into a database format > that > > makes it more reliable. It has got so bad that MS decided to create a SQL > > language within Excel called DAO. > > > > It bares the question if Base should change to have a more spreadsheet > > centric aproach, meaning that we should include formulas into Base. > > > > > > As a quick reply to the spreadsheet comment. Already, there exist DB > functions in Calc, and Base can import spreadsheets into its front-end if > you will. > > We are living in a far, far different world than when StarOffice was first > introduced. The database world, who creates them, who maintains them is > quite different. > > I brought this up to suggest that the focus of Base be changed, not > eliminated entirely. Maintaining/developing the connectivity pieces to > various forms of databases is probably manageable. A full-blown embedded DB > -- maybe not. What are the consequences of a full-blown embedded DB to > both developers and end users? > It is soo much easier just to use an open source db, that are maintained by database specialist. If we should embed one (which I do not like), we should anyhow not develop it but simply have it as a third party package.
> > We do need to focus on preserving the quality of the product -- in total. > +1 > > > > > > > > > > nobody said we don't want, the key point that nobody worked on it, > > > nobody maintains it, does improvements etc. We see of course demand for > > > it but on the other hand we also see that it makes only sense with some > > > degree of quality. Everything else can be more damaging for the project > > > at all. > > > I think it is not so hard to understand that a project driven by > > > volunteers need volunteers for the certain areas or code get > > > unmaintained, unstable, buggy over time or lacks for certain features > > > and improvements ... > > > > > > Juergen > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Alexandro Colorado > > Apache OpenOffice Contributor > > http://es.openoffice.org > > > > > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > MzK > > "Achieving happiness requires the right combination of Zen and Zin." >
