Perfect, thanks a lot for the help. Let me know if I can support him - even
if I guess you are already doing it ;).

Le mer. 9 déc. 2020 à 21:02, Michael Osipov <micha...@apache.org> a écrit :

> Am 2020-12-09 um 11:39 schrieb Romain Manni-Bucau:
> > Any issue moving forward on https://github.com/apache/maven/pull/408 ?
>
> No issue, I have delegated the IT to a former colleague who is looking
> for simple issues to contribute. Turning your test case into an IT seems
> like a perfect fit.
>
> M
>
> > Romain Manni-Bucau
> > @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> |  Blog
> > <https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
> > <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github <
> https://github.com/rmannibucau> |
> > LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book
> > <
> https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance
> >
> >
> >
> > Le jeu. 3 déc. 2020 à 20:08, Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibu...@gmail.com>
> a
> > écrit :
> >
> >> created https://github.com/apache/maven/pull/408 about it
> >>
> >> Romain Manni-Bucau
> >> @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> |  Blog
> >> <https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
> >> <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github
> >> <https://github.com/rmannibucau> | LinkedIn
> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book
> >> <
> https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Le mar. 1 déc. 2020 à 17:50, Romain Manni-Bucau <rmannibu...@gmail.com>
> a
> >> écrit :
> >>
> >>> Up,
> >>>
> >>> Encountered a few bugs related to this regression, wonder how we want
> to
> >>> tackle it.
> >>> My 2cts would be to drop cdi-api and replace the single used
> >>> annotation from there by a maven one.
> >>> If we don't want to break plugins (not sure any use that) we can
> rewrite
> >>> it with asm or equivalent at load time since we own the classloading.
> >>>
> >>> Anyone having an opinion on that?
> >>>
> >>> Romain Manni-Bucau
> >>> @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> |  Blog
> >>> <https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
> >>> <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github
> >>> <https://github.com/rmannibucau> | LinkedIn
> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book
> >>> <
> https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Le mar. 6 févr. 2018 à 18:02, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> rmannibu...@gmail.com>
> >>> a écrit :
> >>>
> >>>> commented inline
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Romain Manni-Bucau
> >>>> @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> |  Blog
> >>>> <https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
> >>>> <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github
> >>>> <https://github.com/rmannibucau> | LinkedIn
> >>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book
> >>>> <
> https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance
> >
> >>>>
> >>>> 2018-02-06 17:51 GMT+01:00 Stuart McCulloch <mccu...@gmail.com>:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Tuesday, 6 February 2018 at 13:25, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
> >>>>>> 2018-02-06 12:25 GMT+01:00 Stuart McCulloch <mccu...@gmail.com
> >>>>> (mailto:mccu...@gmail.com)>:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The "javax.enterprise.inject" CDI package was explicitly exported
> >>>>> as part
> >>>>>>> of the ongoing effort to migrate legacy Plexus components onto more
> >>>>> modern
> >>>>>>> standard annotations.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hmm, this looks wrong from my window cause Maven doesn't support CDI
> >>>>> API -
> >>>>>> guice doesn't. So it is an interpretation of a well defined API
> which
> >>>>> is by
> >>>>>> defintion a bad public API, no?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Raw Guice supports JSR330, but requires programmatic configuration
> (ie.
> >>>>> bindings defined in modules)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sisu builds on Guice to add support for things like annotation
> scanning
> >>>>> and wiring, injectable collections that dynamically update as
> plugins come
> >>>>> and go, property placeholders, etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If the CDI annotations are on the classpath then it also honours the
> >>>>> @Typed annotation. This was a feature request to help migrate certain
> >>>>> components from other Plexus-based applications over to JSR330 +
> @Typed. At
> >>>>> the time there was a consideration that the rest of the CDI
> annotations
> >>>>> would eventually be supported, as another compatibility layer.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sisu also provides a Plexus compatibility layer that supports Plexus
> >>>>> annotations and XML
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maven 3.x switched to Sisu so old Plexus-based components can still
> be
> >>>>> used, while modern components can be written with JSR330. At the
> time of
> >>>>> the switch it was decided to enable support for @Typed in Maven
> >>>>> plugins/extensions (because there was a developer need for this
> feature,
> >>>>> but that may well have changed and no longer be relevant).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So Maven currently honours using @Typed on components - if it’s
> decided
> >>>>> that Maven doesn’t want to support @Typed in plugins then just
> remove the
> >>>>> export and exclude the cdi-api jar. As mentioned previously support
> for
> >>>>> @Typed is used by other downstream non-Maven applications so it will
> always
> >>>>> be something the container supports, but it's totally optional so if
> you
> >>>>> don’t want it then you don’t need to ship the cdi-api jar.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes but having the full API for one class is luxury (see later comment
> >>>> for the detail)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Specifically, the @javax.enterprise.inject.Typed annotation lets
> >>>>>>> components state they are only visible for injection under a
> >>>>> specific type,
> >>>>>>> rather than any type in their hierarchy.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There’s no annotation to control binding visibility in JSR330,
> >>>>> because it
> >>>>>>> deliberately avoids configuration concerns, which is why we went
> >>>>> with the
> >>>>>>> closest standard annotation (@Typed from JSR299 aka CDI). While we
> >>>>> could
> >>>>>>> have decided to use our own annotation - and the container does in
> >>>>> fact
> >>>>>>> support using @org.eclipse.sisu.Typed - this is not standardised or
> >>>>>>> portable. Also note the container will continue to support this
> >>>>> (optional)
> >>>>>>> feature for other downstream users, regardless of what’s decided
> >>>>> here - the
> >>>>>>> question is whether Maven still wants to use this feature and
> >>>>> whether it
> >>>>>>> wants to use the standard annotation or not.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Another point is that whichever annotation is chosen must be
> >>>>>>> visible/defined from the same classloader to both core and plugins.
> >>>>> If the
> >>>>>>> annotation is not exported then core and each plugin will end up
> >>>>> with a
> >>>>>>> different @Typed class, defined by different classloaders. Any use
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>>> @Typed in plugins would then effectively be invisible to the
> >>>>> container,
> >>>>>>> because the JVM’s AnnotatedElement API (getAnnotation,
> >>>>> isAnnotationPresent,
> >>>>>>> etc.) work off classes and not name equivalence.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Similarly shading won’t work because neither the plugin’s
> >>>>> components nor
> >>>>>>> the container would know about the shaded package.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hmm, not sure. I mean it works in most projects and it is easy to
> >>>>> expose
> >>>>>> the shaded API so not a big deal *technically*. Agree it would be a
> >>>>> bad
> >>>>>> solution to use a misused API publicly.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> By “not work” I really meant “not practical”. It’s not enough to just
> >>>>> shade the CDI jar, you’d also need to shade the container - being
> careful
> >>>>> that its reflective calls were properly updated (since it uses
> reflection
> >>>>> to decide whether to load the feature or not). TBH all that work is
> >>>>> overkill, since the container already supports an alternative
> annotation:
> >>>>> @org.eclipse.sisu.Typed
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> works for me
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As you can see from the thread in http://maven.40175.n5.nabble.
> >>>>>>> com/Linkage-error-td5784411.html a number of alternative solutions
> >>>>> have
> >>>>>>> been discussed before, including narrowing the export to:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "javax.enterprise.inject.Typed"
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> as that’s the only annotation we’re currently interested in. Since
> >>>>> @Typed
> >>>>>>> hasn’t changed between 1.x and 2.x that should be a workable
> >>>>> solution,
> >>>>>>> assuming you wanted to keep using the standard annotation.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Removing the export (and thereby removing the feature to limit
> >>>>> injection
> >>>>>>> visibility to a specific type) was also discussed, and at the time
> >>>>> Igor
> >>>>>>> asked for it to be kept:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> “Please keep @Typed annotation available outside of core.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I use @Typed annotation in one of my (private) core extensions
> >>>>> where I
> >>>>>>> need a class to implement an interface but not make that interface
> >>>>>>> visible for injection in other components.”
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Issue is I can say the opposite "I use this in my plugin cause I use
> >>>>> CDI to
> >>>>>> impl my plugin, please ignore it for all Maven usage". Both are
> valid
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>> therefore the Maven API shouldn't have any overlapping.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Whenever you embed a container inside any kind of plugin you’re at
> the
> >>>>> mercy of what’s exposed to that plugin - whether that plugin is
> running in
> >>>>> Maven, Jenkins, or an IDE. If you want full control/sanity then use a
> >>>>> custom classloader to isolate the embedded container from the
> plugin’s
> >>>>> environment, and just let through those packages you expect to be
> provided.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For example, say we did fully support CDI 1.x components inside
> plugins
> >>>>> (as in the entire API was supported). You’d still have an issue
> embedding a
> >>>>> CDI 2.x container, because of the API clash, unless you used a custom
> >>>>> classloader between the plugin and the embedded container.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes but would have complained way earlier ;)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Assuming Igor still needs this feature then the only other option
> >>>>> would be
> >>>>>>> to ask him if he can move to the non-standard
> >>>>> @org.eclipse.sisu.Typed. The
> >>>>>>> existing CDI export could then be replaced by exporting
> >>>>> “org.eclipse.sisu”.
> >>>>>>> Once that was done then the cdi-api dependency could be excluded
> >>>>> from the
> >>>>>>> distribution, as the container will still work without it on the
> >>>>> classpath
> >>>>>>> (it’s only required if you want to use the standard CDI
> annotation).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So to summarise, the options are:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> a) Continue to support the standard API, but narrow the entry in
> >>>>>>> META-INF/maven/extension.xml to “javax.enterprise.inject.Typed”
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> b) Switch to support @org.eclipse.sisu.Typed
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> c) Remove this feature completely from Maven
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  From what I'm concerned b and c would solve it but I guess sisu
> users
> >>>>> can
> >>>>>> have the same issue - not sure how likely it is.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sisu users typically have control over the container classpath and
> can
> >>>>> choose whether to include CDI or not (and at which level)
> >>>>>> There is a d) option: add in @Mojo a list of imported API.
> ClassRealm
> >>>>> can
> >>>>>> support filtering from the parent classloader and therefore I could
> >>>>> use:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> @Mojo(name ="...", pluginPackages={"javax", ...})
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This would allow to keep current setup and let mojo to override it.
> >>>>>> Compared to a) it is defined in plugin.xml and not extension.xml.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At the moment there’s a single Maven API realm, which imports all the
> >>>>> packages listed in the core extension.xml from the core classloader.
> >>>>> Plugins then import that realm wholesale, so they automatically get
> all
> >>>>> exported packages. However, it should be possible to be more
> selective,
> >>>>> whether that’s using a whitelisting or blacklisting approach.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That said, it would be much simpler to either remove the export or
> >>>>> switch to @org.eclipse.inject.Typed (since use of the annotation in
> Maven
> >>>>> is currently very limited)
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> A last alternative is to still support @Typed without providing it.
> >>>> Concretely it means maven drops cdi (sadly not inject jar) and use
> asm to
> >>>> check if @Typed if here. Sounds the less breaking compromise even if
> not
> >>>> the most sexy in terms of impl.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Cheers, Stuart
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, 6 February 2018 at 09:09, Romain Manni-Bucau wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2018-02-06 9:41 GMT+01:00 Tibor Digana <tibordig...@apache.org
> >>>>> (mailto:tibordig...@apache.org) (mailto:
> >>>>>>> tibordig...@apache.org (mailto:tibordig...@apache.org))>:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Personally I would like to see a new Git branch with CDI 2.0
> >>>>> and the
> >>>>>>>>> integration test results on Jenkins.
> >>>>>>>>> This would give us more confidence.
> >>>>>>>>> Question: Does the CDI 2.0 have any NEW mandatory descriptive
> >>>>> methods
> >>>>>>>>> without default value already introduced in OLD annotations CDI
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 1.0/1.1?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> It is more a change in the hierarchy. It doesn't break the user
> >>>>> API since
> >>>>>>>> cdi is designed to be provided but it is broken if new code uses
> >>>>> old API.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Side note: if the idea behind this answer is to ensure the default
> >>>>>>> provided
> >>>>>>>> API is the last one then it doesn't work cause an API has a few
> >>>>> logic
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> which
> >>>>>>>> can require to be overriden (like the SPI and defaults handling).
> >>>>>>>> Maven uses its own API and exposing CDI is a leaking abuse IMHO.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Note that this is an old bug which should be fixed now IMO before
> >>>>> maven
> >>>>>>>> considers CDI being exposed as part of the contract.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> For reference, older threads:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> http://maven.40175.n5.nabble.com/libs-in-mavens-lib-folder-
> >>>>>>> td5828015.html
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> http://maven.40175.n5.nabble.com/Linkage-error-td5784411.html#a5784470
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> There is no risk removing it, worse case plugins would add the
> >>>>> API as
> >>>>>>>> compile instead of provided which should likely already be the
> >>>>> case.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 8:57 AM, Romain Manni-Bucau <
> >>>>>>> rmannibu...@gmail.com (mailto:rmannibu...@gmail.com)>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> For the reproducer here it is https://github.com/
> >>>>>>>>>> rmannibucau/test-maven-plugin - pretty trivial you'll see ;).
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 2018-02-06 8:05 GMT+01:00 Tibor Digana <
> >>>>> tibordig...@apache.org (mailto:tibordig...@apache.org)
> >>>>>>> (mailto:tibordig...@apache.org)>:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Changing the package would not be possible in 3.x.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Why? In particular since it is an old regression already
> >>>>> reported on
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> list due to guice introduction it shouldn't be delayed for
> >>>>> this kind
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>> reason IMHO.
> >>>>>>>>>> Was less visible until CDI 2 was released cause the API
> >>>>> difference
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> was
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>>> triggered but now there are new entries it breaks immediately.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Guessing the version 4.0.0.
> >>>>>>>>>>> WDYT?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Would stay a blocker until 4 is out which is that soon so not
> >>>>> sure
> >>>>>>> it is
> >>>>>>>>>> an option.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 8:01 AM, Tibor Digana <
> >>>>>>> tibordig...@apache.org (mailto:tibordig...@apache.org)>
> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The question is maybe about what is realistic for Maven
> >>>>> devs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Shading the CPI package (to something like
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> org.apache.maven.cdi.*)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> would
> >>>>>>>>>>>> be maybe the case instead of removing the original CDI and
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> reinventing
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wheel.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 7:52 AM, Hervé BOUTEMY <
> >>>>>>> herve.bout...@free.fr (mailto:herve.bout...@free.fr)>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> and does the MNG issue contain a reproducible test case
> >>>>> for us
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> investigate
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> more precisely?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hervé
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Le lundi 5 février 2018, 22:11:56 CET Robert Scholte a
> >>>>> écrit :
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a MNG[1] issue?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MNG
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 03 Feb 2018 16:29:49 +0100, Romain Manni-Bucau
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rmannibu...@gmail.com (mailto:rmannibu...@gmail.com
> >>>>> )>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Up?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Le 19 janv. 2018 13:18, "Romain Manni-Bucau" <
> >>>>>>>>> rmannibu...@gmail.com (mailto:rmannibu...@gmail.com)>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> écrit :
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi guys,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cdi-api is still in maven lib and breaks any
> >>>>> plugin
> >>>>>>> using it
> >>>>>>>>> since
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an old version, can it be dropped or at least
> >>>>> isolated
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> plugin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> classloaders?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Romain Manni-Bucau
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> |
> >>>>> Blog
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://github.com/rmannibucau> | LinkedIn
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>> ---------
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