Hi Sönke, Thanks for your feedback, sorry that I didn’t gave you the whole picture in first place:
We are using an Architecture, which tries to avoid to fetch or pull anything from a 3rd party during runtime. Therefore we are using self-contained tokens and client side load balancing with a micro service alike architecture. In this architecture we have two tokens: - the manifest which enabled services to provide APIs - the peer token which enables services to call APIs API providers publish their APIs in a Portal. API consumers subscribe to those APIs. The portal generates a manifest for the provider and a peer token for the consumer. Both tokens contain a list of endpoints and are signed by the portal. The tokens are valid for a certain amount of time. Furthermore we use a Service Registry to discover those services. The flow works as follows: - A service instance registers itself (endpoint --> IP:Port) at the Service Discovery (SD) using the manifest. - A client queries SD for instances of a specific Endpoint and receives a list of IP:Port combinations - The client connects to the service and provides its peer token The client and the service use mutual TLS for authentication and the peer token for authorization. The token is signed to check its integrity and linked to the CN of the client certificate to check its validity (and prevent forwarding of the token). The benefit is, that we do not have any critical runtime dependencies: SD results can be cached and the tokens are valid for a certain amount of time. A client can perform client side load balancing and call a service even if the SD or the Portal are currently unavailable. Furthermore we avoid bottlenecks like load balancers. If you have 20mins time, our Principal Architect for API Design gave a talk about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yke6Vut2Shc We want to use the same mechanism with Kafka: - Connect via Mutual TLS - Provide a peer token which contains metod:topics I understood that it should be possible to get the details from the certificate, but we also need the token. The combination of certificate + token is need to prevent impersonation of APIs (one could easily forward a token, if it wasn’t bound to a certificate). I agree with the revocation part, but we are only looking at internal clients. The process would be to revoke access in the Portal which prevents new instances to connect to the service. If we really encounter malicious behaviour, the prefer way is to shut down the misbehaving client. Kind Regards, Peter -----Original Message----- From: Sönke Liebau [mailto:soenke.lie...@opencore.com.INVALID] Sent: Donnerstag, 26. Oktober 2017 14:59 To: dev@kafka.apache.org Subject: Re: Use self contained tokens instead of ACL Hi Peter, I am not entirely sure that I understand what you mean when you say "at application level" to be honest, but I do understand that you want to forego 3rd party tools. However, this would mean that you have to implement some form of trust between your portal which issues the tokens and Kafka which checks the tokens. I am not sure that I'd recommend rolling your own solution here, authentication has a lot of pitfalls that can turn around to bite you. Same thing as what I proposed with Kerberos could be done via certificates of course. If your user requests access to a topic in the portal he uploads a certificate signing request with the topic name encoded in some field (lots of extensions to pick from). The portal signs the request and returns it to the user. When the user now connects to Kafka he does so using this certificate and it should be fairly easy for you to extend the KafkaPrincipalBuilder class and extract the list of these topics from the certificate. Then you'd need to also extend SimpleAclAuthorizer to check for these topics in the principal name and allow access if the topic is present in the certificate. I am unsure of the benefits of this system over for example having the portal create ACLs in Kafka, when the user is granted access to a topic. One scenario that comes to mind is if you dynamically spin up new clusters, if these new clusters all trust the same ca they would also accept these tokens right away, no need to create ACLs in fresh clusters. But this could also be solved by having a central repository for ACLs that are applied to all clusters regularly.. A drawback of this system is that you'd need to revoke certificates if you want to withdraw access to a topic, which is significantly harder that just deleting an ACL. Anyway, not sure if this helps you at all, just some random musings - if you explain your specific needs a bit more we can discuss further. Kind regards, Sönke On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 1:10 PM, Postmann, P. (Peter) < peter.postm...@ing.com.invalid> wrote: > Hi Sönke, > > Thanks for the fast replay. We don’t want to use Kerberos since we > want to do the authorization on Application level and without > involvement of a 3rd party during runtime. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sönke Liebau [mailto:soenke.lie...@opencore.com.INVALID] > Sent: Mittwoch, 25. Oktober 2017 12:37 > To: dev@kafka.apache.org > Subject: Re: Use self contained tokens instead of ACL > > The concept you describe sounds similar to what Microsoft calls > "claims based authorization". > > At a high level I should think that using Kerberos as a vehicle to > transport the information would be the way to go, as it is established > and already supported by Kafka. I believe tickets have a field that > can be used for authorization information, so if information about the > topics that a user has access to were to be encoded in this field you > could probably extend Kafka to extract that information and use it instead of > ACLs. > > I am not well versed in what exactly Microsoft does and how you can > control the granting side of things, but I do believe that AD server > has support for something along those lines already. > > The upside of this would be that you don't have to implement anything > around security, trust, encryption, etc. because everything is > provided by Kerberos. > > Not much information in here I am afraid, but maybe a useful direction > for future research. > > Kind regards, > Sönke > > On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Postmann, P. (Peter) < > peter.postm...@ing.com.invalid> wrote: > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I´m working on a concept to use Kafka with self-contained tokens > > (instead of ACL). > > > > The idea: > > > > - A client requests access to a certain topic (in some kind of > > portal) > > > > - The owner of the topic approves the request (in some kind of > > portal) > > > > - The client receives a signed tokens which contains the topic > > (in some kind of portal) > > > > - The client sends the token when he connects to Kafka > > > > - Kafka validates the token and grants access > > > > Token Format: > > > > - List of Topics and methods > > > > o E.g. read /topic1 > > > > - Expire Date > > > > - Signature > > > > Implementation Idea: > > > > - Create a custom Authorization Class which checks the signature > > > > - Implement the possibility to send arbitrary data (key->value) > > along with the request when the client connects to the cluster > > > > I´m looking forward for feedback on this approach and would be happy > > if you could give me a starting where to start with the > > implementation (or if there already is a way to send arbitrary data > > to a custom > Authorizer). > > > > Kind Regards, > > Peter > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > ATTENTION: > > The information in this e-mail is confidential and only meant for > > the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, don't > > use or disclose it in any way. Please let the sender know and delete > > the message immediately. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > -- > Sönke Liebau > Partner > Tel. +49 179 7940878 > OpenCore GmbH & Co. KG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 8 - 22880 Wedel - Germany > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ATTENTION: > The information in this e-mail is confidential and only meant for the > intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, don't use > or disclose it in any way. Please let the sender know and delete the > message immediately. > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > -- Sönke Liebau Partner Tel. +49 179 7940878 OpenCore GmbH & Co. KG - Thomas-Mann-Straße 8 - 22880 Wedel - Germany ----------------------------------------------------------------- ATTENTION: The information in this e-mail is confidential and only meant for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, don't use or disclose it in any way. Please let the sender know and delete the message immediately. -----------------------------------------------------------------
