Hi Mickael,

Thank you for running the release! How do you feel about including 
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-19458 as well in v4.1.0?

Regards,
Gaurav

> On 18 Jul 2025, at 13:54, Mickael Maison <mickael.mai...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Luke,
> 
> I don't think Kafka uses the ClassUtils.getClass() method from Commons
> so it shouldn't be impacted by this CVE.
> That said, I'm planning to do another RC on Monday, so if you can get
> the dependency update merged in 4.1 by then I'll include it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mickael
> 
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2025 at 2:42 PM Luke Chen <show...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mickael,
>> 
>> Since we're going to have a new RC, do you think this KAFKA-19520
>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-19520> should be included in
>> v4.1.0?
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> Luke
>> 
>> On Thu, Jul 17, 2025 at 11:29 PM Lucas Brutschy
>> <lbruts...@confluent.io.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Mickael,
>>> 
>>> done.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Lucas
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jul 17, 2025 at 2:18 PM Mickael Maison <mickael.mai...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Lucas,
>>>> 
>>>> Ok, let me know once you're done.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Mickael
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jul 17, 2025 at 11:08 AM Lucas Brutschy
>>>> <lbruts...@confluent.io.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Mickael,
>>>>> 
>>>>> we have been seeing a race condition happening in the initialization
>>>>> of the state updater. We'd like to revert 4d6cf3efef
>>>>> which changed the initialization of the state updater and is anyway
>>>>> linked to KAFKA-18913 that was moved to 4.2.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Let me know if you accept the change.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Lucas
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2025 at 6:47 PM Paolo Patierno <
>>> paolo.patie...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Jun,
>>>>>> oh yes sorry!! It's NOW fixed :-D Thanks!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2025 at 18:38, Jun Rao <j...@confluent.io.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi, Paolo,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks for the reply. I guess that you mean the metadata version
>>> issue is
>>>>>>> NOW fixed, instead of NOT fixed?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Jun
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2025 at 8:57 AM Paolo Patierno <
>>> paolo.patie...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> I already did on the PR but let me confirm here as well that the
>>> metadata
>>>>>>>> version issues is not fixed, I was able to test it locally
>>> within our
>>>>>>>> Strimzi unit tests.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> Paolo
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Twitter : @ppatierno <http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
>>>>>>>> Linkedin : paolopatierno <
>>> http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
>>>>>>>> GitHub : ppatierno <https://github.com/ppatierno>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2025, 17:43 Mickael Maison, <
>>> mickael.mai...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi Chia-Ping,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sure, thanks
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Mickael
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2025 at 4:07 PM Chia-Ping Tsai <
>>> chia7...@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> hi Mickael
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I'm going to merge the patch for
>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-19427. The bug
>>> could lead
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> an OOM in 4.x. The risk is low since the patch is small.
>>> Hence, I plan
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> backport it to 4.1.0 if you agree to accept it.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>> Chia-Ping
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 2025/07/15 08:43:40 Mickael Maison wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Bill,
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes you can go ahead and backport that to 4.1.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>> Mickael
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 14, 2025 at 8:42 PM Bill Bejeck <
>>> bbej...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Mickael,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I've found another blocker as well KAFKA-19504
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-19504>,
>>> and we
>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>>>> PR (
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/20166).
>>>>>>>>>>>> While this is not a blocker in the strict sense, it's
>>> severe
>>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>>>> that we
>>>>>>>>>>>> shouldn't let this ship as is.  It's minor change with
>>> very low
>>>>>>>> risk.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 14, 2025 at 2:09 PM Jun Rao
>>> <j...@confluent.io.invalid
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, Paolo,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for identifying the issue. We now have a PR (
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/kafka/pull/20137) to bump
>>> up the
>>>>>>>> latest
>>>>>>>>>>>>> production metadata version.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jun
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 14, 2025 at 1:58 AM Paolo Patierno <
>>>>>>>>> paolo.patie...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I found something which could be a blocker
>>> for the
>>>>>>>>> release.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was adding the support for Apache Kafka 4.1.0 to
>>> Strimzi
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> running
>>>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tests but some of them are failing with the
>>> following error.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Version 4.1 is
>>> not a
>>>>>>> valid
>>>>>>>>> version.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minimum version is 3.3-IV3 and the maximum version
>>> is 4.2-IV1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>> org.apache.kafka.server.common.MetadataVersion.lambda$fromVersionString$0(MetadataVersion.java:356)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     at
>>>>>>>>> java.base/java.util.Optional.orElseThrow(Optional.java:403)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>> org.apache.kafka.server.common.MetadataVersion.fromVersionString(MetadataVersion.java:354)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In these tests we use the MetadataVersion class to
>>> verify the
>>>>>>>>> validity of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> metadata but it fails when passing something like
>>> "4.1"
>>>>>>> (while
>>>>>>>>> they work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just fine with all previous releases, i.e. "4.0",
>>> "3.9" and
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>>> on).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The exception, thrown by the fromVersionString
>>> method, seems
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> related
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to "4.1" missing as key entry within the
>>> IBP_VERSIONS map and
>>>>>>>>> such entry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be missing because, if you go through the
>>> static
>>>>>>>>> initialization
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the IBP_VERSIONS map, the "4.1" entry is not added
>>> due to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> metadataVersion.isProduction() which results false
>>> for "4.1"
>>>>>>>>> because the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LATEST_PRODUCTION constant is defined as IBP_4_0_IV3
>>> while I
>>>>>>>>> would assume
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be something like IBP_4_1_IV1 instead.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think this issue wasn't caught during Kafka
>>> upstream
>>>>>>> testing
>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MetadataVersionTest.testFromVersionString is missing
>>> the test
>>>>>>>>> for "4.1"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we have for all other versions). So it's missing
>>> something
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assertEquals(IBP_4_1_IV1,
>>>>>>>>> MetadataVersion.fromVersionString("4.1"));
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         assertEquals(IBP_4_1_IV0,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MetadataVersion.fromVersionString("4.1-IV0"));
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>         assertEquals(IBP_4_1_IV1,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MetadataVersion.fromVersionString("4.1-IV1"));
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's add that this issue seems to break the storage
>>> tool
>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>> you can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pass the --release-version, but if you run it by
>>> passing
>>>>>>> "4.1"
>>>>>>>>> you get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly the same exception.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bin/kafka-storage.sh format --standalone -t
>>>>>>>>> kEzc4vk3TIKhCQKsh40klQ -c
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> config/server.properties --release-version 4.1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Exception in thread "main"
>>>>>>> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException:
>>>>>>>>> Version
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4.1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not a valid version. The minimum version is
>>> 3.3-IV3 and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> maximum
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version is 4.2-IV1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finally, I would add that the error message itself is
>>>>>>>> misleading
>>>>>>>>> as it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentions 4.2-IV1 as maximum version which would not
>>> exist at
>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>> if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with a 4.1 release. This misleading message
>>> should be
>>>>>>>>> related to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MetadataVersion.latestTesting() method which is
>>> getting last
>>>>>>>>> value from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VERSIONS which is filled with all MetadataVersion
>>> enums
>>>>>>>>> including the 4.2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placeholders (which AFAIU is actually a new
>>> practice). All of
>>>>>>>>> that has
>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an impact on the ClusterTest annotation class as
>>> well as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> FeatureCommandTest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> messages to be assert. So that 4.2 seems to be there
>>> on
>>>>>>> purpose
>>>>>>>>> but not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sure why.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would be happy to contribute about the first issue
>>> which
>>>>>>>>> raises the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exception. Not sure about the misleading error
>>> message
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the 4.2 placeholders within the VERSIONS
>>> collection.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paolo Patierno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Mickael Maison <mickael.mai...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, Jul 11, 2025 at 11:53 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [VOTE] 4.1.0 RC0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: dev <dev@kafka.apache.org>, Users <
>>>>>>> us...@kafka.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> ,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kafka-clients <kafka-clie...@googlegroups.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Kafka users, developers and client-developers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the first candidate for release of Apache
>>> Kafka
>>>>>>> 4.1.0.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The release brings many new features and
>>> improvements:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Mechanism for plugin to register metrics
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Allow running multiple versions of connector
>>> plugins
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Queue are now in preview access
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - New Streams rebalance protocol in early access
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Support for OAuth jwt-bearer grant type
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Improved metadata replication
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Release notes for the 4.1.0 release:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/kafka/4.1.0-rc0/RELEASE_NOTES.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *** Please download, test and vote by Monday July 21
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kafka's KEYS file containing PGP keys we use to sign
>>> the
>>>>>>>> release:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://kafka.apache.org/KEYS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Release artifacts to be voted upon (source and
>>> binary):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/kafka/4.1.0-rc0/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Docker release artifacts to be voted upon:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apache/kafka:4.1.0-rc0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apache/kafka-native:4.1.0-rc0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Maven artifacts to be voted upon:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>> https://repository.apache.org/content/groups/staging/org/apache/kafka/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Javadoc:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/kafka/4.1.0-rc0/javadoc/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Tag to be voted upon (off 4.1 branch) is the 4.1.0
>>> tag:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> https://github.com/apache/kafka/releases/tag/4.1.0-rc0
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Documentation:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://kafka.apache.org/41/documentation.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PR (https://github.com/apache/kafka-site/pull/702)
>>> is not
>>>>>>>>> merged yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Protocol:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://kafka.apache.org/41/protocol.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PR (https://github.com/apache/kafka-site/pull/702)
>>> is not
>>>>>>>>> merged yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Successful CI builds for the 4.1 branch:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Unit/integration tests:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> https://github.com/apache/kafka/actions/runs/16198079614
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * System tests results:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - core:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JLpFBFbPV1N6cdh9EA9TGw9S5SZwkIpv/view?usp=drive_link
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - non-core:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>> https://drive.google.com/file/d/15jCnTS-dssSHauW7uWxroiupkWaeUK7A/view?usp=drive_link
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I got 2 failures in the system tests:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>> 'tests/kafkatest/tests/client/consumer_test.py::OffsetValidationTest.test_broker_rolling_bounce@
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> {"metadata_quorum":"ISOLATED_KRAFT","group_protocol":"classic"}'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>> 'tests/kafkatest/tests/core/network_degrade_test.py::NetworkDegradeTest.test_rate@
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>> {"task_name":"rate-1000-latency-50","device_name":"eth0","latency_ms":50,"rate_limit_kbit":1000000,"metadata_quorum":"COMBINED_KRAFT"}'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Successful Docker Image Github Actions Pipeline
>>> for 4.1
>>>>>>>> branch:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Docker Build Test Pipeline (JVM):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> https://github.com/apache/kafka/actions/runs/16172687407/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Docker Build Test Pipeline (Native):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> https://github.com/apache/kafka/actions/runs/16220242161
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Note:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As described in the release thread, the native image
>>>>>>>>> configuration
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> files had to be updated. I'm not able to run the
>>> full system
>>>>>>>> test
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suite with the GraalVM agent to generate the new
>>>>>>> configuration
>>>>>>>>> files.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Luke has kindly run a few commands to produce a fix
>>> to the
>>>>>>>> config
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> files. I validated that the kafka-native:4.1.0-rc0
>>> image
>>>>>>> passes
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quickstart (clients, connect and streams), but as
>>> that image
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for development, I've not tested it any further.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also all the other release artifacts were generated
>>> before
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> fix to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the native image configuration files was merged. As
>>> these
>>>>>>> files
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not part of any of the other release artifacts and
>>> as this is
>>>>>>>>> rc0, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deemed that acceptable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mickael
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paolo Patierno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Senior Principal Software Engineer @ Red Hat**CNCF
>>>>>>> Ambassador*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Microsoft MVP on **Azure*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter : @ppatierno <http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linkedin : paolopatierno <
>>>>>>>>> http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GitHub : ppatierno <https://github.com/ppatierno>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paolo Patierno
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Senior Principal Software Engineer @ Red Hat**CNCF
>>>>>>> Ambassador*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Microsoft MVP on **Azure*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter : @ppatierno <http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linkedin : paolopatierno <
>>>>>>>>> http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GitHub : ppatierno <https://github.com/ppatierno>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Paolo Patierno
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> *Senior Principal Software Engineer @ Red Hat**CNCF Ambassador*
>>>>>> *Microsoft MVP on **Azure*
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Twitter : @ppatierno <http://twitter.com/ppatierno>
>>>>>> Linkedin : paolopatierno <http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno>
>>>>>> GitHub : ppatierno <https://github.com/ppatierno>
>>> 

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