Hi François, Is it an official policy of the ASF that projects provide a listing of commercial support options for themselves? I understand that other projects have chosen to provide one, but this doesn't necessarily imply that all projects should do the same, and I can't say I find this point very convincing as a rebuttal to some of the good-faith concerns raised by the PMC and members of the community so far. However, if there's an official ASF stance on this topic, then I acknowledge that Apache Kafka should align with it.
Best, Chris On Thu, Jan 11, 2024, 14:50 fpapon <fpa...@apache.org> wrote: > Hi Justine, > > I'm not sure to see the difference between "happy users" and vendors > that advertise their products in some of the company list in the > "powered by" page. > > Btw, my initial purpose of my proposal was to help user to find support > for production stuff rather than searching in google. > > I don't think this is a bad thing because this is something that already > exist in many ASF projects like: > > https://hop.apache.org/community/commercial/ > https://struts.apache.org/commercial-support.html > https://directory.apache.org/commercial-support.html > https://tomee.apache.org/commercial-support.html > https://plc4x.apache.org/users/commercial-support.html > https://camel.apache.org/community/support/ > https://openmeetings.apache.org/commercial-support.html > https://guacamole.apache.org/support/ > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/HADOOP2/Distributions+and+Commercial+Support > https://activemq.apache.org/supporthttps://karaf.apache.org/community.html > https://netbeans.apache.org/front/main/help/commercial-support/ > https://royale.apache.org/royale-commercial-support/ > > https://karaf.apache.org/community.html > > As I understand for now, the channel for users to find production > support is: > > - The mailing list (u...@kafka.apache.org / dev@kafka.apache.org) > > - The official #kafka ASF Slack channel (may be we can add it on the > website because I didn't find it in the website => > https://kafka.apache.org/contact) > > - Search in google for commercial support only > > I can update my PR to mention only the 3 points above for the "get > support" page if people think that having a support page make sense. > > regards, > > François > > On 11/01/2024 19:34, Justine Olshan wrote: > > I think there is a difference between the "Powered by" page and a page > for > > vendors to advertise their products and services. > > > > The idea is that the companies on that page are "powered by" Kafka. They > > serve as examples of happy users of Kafka. > > I don't think it is meant only as a place just for those companies to > > advertise. > > > > I'm a little confused by > > > >> In this case, I'm ok to say that the commercial support section in the > > "Get support" is no need as we can use this page. > > > > If you plan to submit for this page, please include a description on how > > your company uses Kafka. > > > > I'm happy to hear other folks' opinions on this page as well. > > > > Thanks, > > Justine > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 8:57 AM fpapon <fpa...@apache.org> wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> About the vendors list and neutrality, what is the policy of the > >> "Powered by" page? > >> > >> https://kafka.apache.org/powered-by > >> > >> We can see company with logo, some are talking about their product > >> (Agoora), some are offering services (Instaclustr, Aiven), and we can > >> also see some that just put their logo and a link to their website > >> without any explanation (GoldmanSachs). > >> > >> So as I understand and after reading the text in the footer of this > >> page, every company can add themselves by providing a PR right? > >> > >> "Want to appear on this page? > >> Submit a pull request or send a quick description of your organization > >> and usage to the mailing list and we'll add you." > >> > >> In this case, I'm ok to say that the commercial support section in the > >> "Get support" is no need as we can use this page. > >> > >> regards, > >> > >> François > >> > >> > >> On 10/01/2024 19:03, Kenneth Eversole wrote: > >>> I agree with Divji here and to be more pointed. I worry that if we go > >> down > >>> the path of adding vendors to a list it comes off as supporting their > >>> product, not to mention could be a huge security risk for novice > users. I > >>> would rather this be a callout to other purely open source tooling, > such > >> as > >>> cruise control. > >>> > >>> Divji brings up good question > >>> 1. What value does additional of this page bring to the users of > Apache > >>> Kafka? > >>> > >>> I think the community would be a better service to have a more > >> synchronous > >>> line of communication such as Slack/Discord and we call that out here. > It > >>> would be more inline with other major open source projects. > >>> > >>> --- > >>> Kenneth Eversole > >>> > >>> On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 10:30 AM Divij Vaidya <divijvaidy...@gmail.com > > > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> I don't see a need for this. What additional information does this > >> provide > >>>> over what can be found via a quick google search? > >>>> > >>>> My primary concern is that we are getting in the business of listing > >>>> vendors in the project site which brings it's own complications > without > >>>> adding much additional value for users. In the spirit of being vendor > >>>> neutral, I would try to avoid this as much as possible. > >>>> > >>>> So, my question to you is: > >>>> 1. What value does additional of this page bring to the users of > Apache > >>>> Kafka? > >>>> 2. When a new PR is submitted to add a vendor, what criteria do we > have > >> to > >>>> decide whether to add them or not? If we keep a blanket criteria of > >>>> accepting all PRs, then we may end up in a situation where the llink > >>>> redirects to a phishing page or nefarious website. Hence, we might > have > >> to > >>>> at least perform some basic due diligence which adds overhead to the > >>>> resources of the community. > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Divij Vaidya > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, Jan 10, 2024 at 5:00 PM fpapon <fpa...@apache.org> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> > >>>>> After starting a first thread on this topic ( > >>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/kkox33rhtjcdr5zztq3lzj7c5s7k9wsr), I > >>>>> would like to propose a PR: > >>>>> > >>>>> https://github.com/apache/kafka-site/pull/577 > >>>>> > >>>>> The purpose of this proposal is to help users to find support for > sla, > >>>>> training, consulting...whatever that is not provide by the community > >> as, > >>>>> like we can already see in many ASF projects, no commercial support > is > >>>>> provided by the foundation. I think it could help with the adoption > and > >>>> the > >>>>> growth of the project because the users > >>>>> need commercial support for production issues. > >>>>> > >>>>> If the community is agree about this idea and want to move forward, I > >>>> just > >>>>> add one company in the PR but everybody can add some by providing a > new > >>>> PR > >>>>> to complete the list. If people want me to add other you can reply to > >>>> this > >>>>> thread because it will be better to have several company at the first > >>>>> publication of the page. > >>>>> > >>>>> Just provide the company-name and a short description of the service > >>>> offer > >>>>> around Apache Kafka. The information must be factual and > informational > >> in > >>>>> nature and not be a marketing statement. > >>>>> > >>>>> regards, > >>>>> > >>>>> François > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> -- > >> -- > >> François > >> > >> > -- > -- > François > >
