Just to make sure we are on the same page - KIP-383 was written before the code was refactored. The refactoring addressed some of the concerns of KIP-383. My suggestion was to make SslEngineBuilder configurable. The default implementation of this pluggable class would be https://github.com/apache/kafka/blob/trunk/clients/src/main/java/org/apache/kafka/common/security/ssl/SslEngineBuilder.java. That should give an idea of the size of the configurable part that a custom class needs to implement. A large part of that is about loading keystore/truststore. I agree it has slightly more code than KIP-486 proposes, but since it lets you customize creation of SSLEngine, it would address every possible scenario.
Thoughts? On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 2:02 AM Maulin Vasavada <maulin.vasav...@gmail.com> wrote: > I thought about it more. I feel that no matter how we refactor the code > (with or without KIP-383 integrated), ultimately the need of customizing > loading for keys and certs will still remain. Whenever that need arises we > might end up thinking about the solution suggested by our KIP-486. Hence > regardless of the other KIPs and configurations "if we do need to customize > loading of keys/certs, we will need the code changes suggested by this > KIP". > > Let me know what you guys think. > > Harsha, we are working on changing the interfaces for key/trust store > loaders with Certificate and PrivateKey objects. Will probably be able to > update it later today or tomorrow. > > Thanks > Maulin > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 2:30 PM Maulin Vasavada <maulin.vasav...@gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > On that, I actually looked at KIP-383 before briefly. However, that > > sounded like lot of changes suggested. > > > > One "key" thing we have to keep in mind is - IF we need lot of > > customization Kafka already allows you to use your SslProvider via > > ssl.providers or the changes done by KIP-492 and > > SSLContext.getInstance(protocol, provider) call allows us to return the > > SSLContext with "ALL" the details we would like to customize. Hence I am > > not sure that customization suggested by KIP-383 would be worth the > effort. > > We also have similar SSLContext customization outside of Kafka. > > > > Thanks > > Maulin > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 12:47 PM Pellerin, Clement < > > clement_pelle...@ibi.com> wrote: > > > >> KIP-383 in its present form was vetoed because it was not possible to > add > >> validation of custom properties in a future KIP. The solution to that is > >> the first proposal I wrote for KIP-383 which made the whole SslFactory > >> pluggable. That first solution was also vetoed hence the deadlock. > >> > >> Replacing the whole factory was a much nicer solution. It was vetoed > >> because doing this almost invariably meant the replacement lost all the > >> complex validation code in the default SslFactory. > >> > >> My current idea is to extract the validation code into another public > API > >> that SslFactory would call. I did not look at the newly refactored code > and > >> I did not study how to do this yet. KIP-383 was not popular at the time > and > >> designing a new solution is a lot of work. > >> > >> Is there interest from 3 binding voters for something like this? > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Rajini Sivaram [mailto:rajinisiva...@gmail.com] > >> Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2019 2:57 PM > >> To: dev > >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-486 Support for pluggable KeyStore and > >> TrustStore > >> > >> Hi Maulin, > >> > >> In SSL scenarios, I imagine security providers introduced by KIP-492 are > >> likely to be most useful when you want to use third party providers. The > >> biggest advantage of the config from that KIP is that you don't need to > >> write much code to integrate existing security providers into Kafka > >> brokers > >> or clients. As I understand it, KIP-486 is a more convenient option for > >> the > >> specific problem of loading keystores/truststores differently. It can be > >> achieved in theory with KIP-492, but KIP-486 is a much simpler option > for > >> this case. > >> > >> My concern about KIP-486 is that it introduces yet another interface > into > >> our already complex security code, while only solving one particular use > >> case. Have you looked at > >> > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-383%3A++Pluggable+interface+for+SSL+Factory > >> ? > >> The goal was to make > >> org.apache.kafka.common.security.ssl.SslEngineBuilder pluggable. > >> The code has already been refactored by Colin after that KIP was > written, > >> making it easier to implement KIP-383. This should enable you to load > your > >> keystores and truststores differently. Using a pluggable > SslEngineBuilder > >> will also solve several other use cases at the same time. KIP-383 hasn't > >> been voted through yet, but perhaps you could take a look and we could > >> revive that instead if it solves your use case as well? > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Rajini > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 6:42 PM Maulin Vasavada < > >> maulin.vasav...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Hi Harsha > >> > > >> > Thank you. Appreciate your time and support on this. Let me go back do > >> some > >> > more research and get back to you on the KeyStore interface part. > >> > Basically, if we return certs and keys in the interface then Kafka > code > >> > will have to build KeyStore object - which is also reasonable. > >> > > >> > Thanks > >> > Maulin > >> > > >> > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 10:01 AM Harsha Chintalapani <ka...@harsha.io > > > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > Hi Maulin, > >> > > Use cases are clear now. I am +1 for moving > >> forward > >> > > with the discussions on having such configurable option for users. > But > >> > the > >> > > interfaces is proposed doesn't look right to me. We are still > talking > >> > about > >> > > keystore interfaces. Given keystore's are used as filebased way of > >> > > transporting certificates I am not sure it will help the rest of the > >> > > user-base. > >> > > In short, I am +1 on the KIP's motivation and only > >> have > >> > > questions around returning keystores instead of returning certs, > >> private > >> > > keys etc. . If others in the community are ok with such interface we > >> can > >> > > move forward. > >> > > > >> > > Thanks, > >> > > Harsha > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 1:51 PM, Maulin Vasavada < > >> > > maulin.vasav...@gmail.com> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > Hi Harsha > >> > > > > >> > > > As we synced-up offline on this topic, we hope you don't have any > >> more > >> > > > clarifications that you are seeking. If that is the case, can you > >> > please > >> > > > help us move this forward and discuss what changes you would > expect > >> on > >> > > the > >> > > > KIP design in order to make it valuable contribution? > >> > > > > >> > > > Just FYI - we verified our primary design change with the author > of > >> > Sun's > >> > > > X509 Trustmanager implementation and the outcome is that what we > are > >> > > > proposing makes sense at the heart of it - "Instead of writing > >> > > TrustManager > >> > > > just plugin the Trust store". We are open to discuss additional > >> changes > >> > > > that you/anybody else would like to see on the functionality > >> however. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks > >> > > > Maulin > >> > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 9:12 PM Maulin Vasavada < > >> > > maulin.vasav...@gmail.com> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi Harsha > >> > > > > >> > > > Any response on my question? I feel this KIP is worth > accommodating. > >> > Your > >> > > > help is much appreciated. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks > >> > > > Maulin > >> > > > > >> > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:52 PM Maulin Vasavada < > >> > maulin.vasavada@gmail. > >> > > > com> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi Harsha > >> > > > > >> > > > I've examined the SPIFFE provider more and have one question - > >> > > > > >> > > > If SPIFFE didn't have a need to do checkSpiffeId() call at the > below > >> > > > location, would you really still write the Provider? *OR* Would > you > >> > just > >> > > > use TrustManagerFactory.init(KeyStore) signature to pass the > >> KeyStore > >> > > from > >> > > > set of certs returned by spiffeIdManager. getTrustedCerts()? > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > https://github.com/spiffe/java-spiffe/blob/master/src/main/java/spiffe/ > >> > > > provider/CertificateUtils.java#L100 > >> > > > > >> > > > /** > >> > > > > >> > > > * Validates that the SPIFFE ID is present and matches the SPIFFE > ID > >> > > > configured in > >> > > > * the java.security property ssl.spiffe.accept > >> > > > * > >> > > > * If the authorized spiffe ids list is empty any spiffe id is > >> > authorized > >> > > > * > >> > > > * @param chain an array of X509Certificate that contains the > Peer's > >> > SVID > >> > > > to be validated > >> > > > * @throws CertificateException when either the certificates > doesn't > >> > have > >> > > a > >> > > > SPIFFE ID or the SPIFFE ID is not authorized > >> > > > */ > >> > > > static void checkSpiffeId(X509Certificate[] chain) throws > >> > > > CertificateException { > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks > >> > > > Maulin > >> > > > > >> > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 4:49 PM Harsha Chintalapani < > >> ka...@harsha.io> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Maulin, > >> > > > The code parts you are pointing are specific for Spiffe and if > >> > > > you are talking about validate method which uses PKIX check like > any > >> > > other > >> > > > provider does. > >> > > > If you want to default to SunJSSE everywhere you can do so by > >> > delegating > >> > > > the calls in these methods to SunJSSE provider. > >> > > > > >> > > > TrustManagerFactory tmf = TrustManagerFactory > >> > > > .getInstance(TrustManagerFactory.getDefaultAlgorithm());and use > >> > > > tmf.chekServerTrusted() > >> > > > or use > >> > > > https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/javax/net/ssl/ > >> > > > TrustManagerFactory.html#getInstance(java.lang.String)if you want > a > >> > > > specific provider. > >> > > > > >> > > > -Harsha > >> > > > > >> > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 4:26 PM, Maulin Vasavada < > >> > maulin.vasavada@gmail. > >> > > > com> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Okay, so I take that you guys agree that I have to write a > 'custom' > >> > > > algorithm and a provider to make it work , correct? > >> > > > > >> > > > Now, for Harsha's comment "Here the 'Custom' Algorithm is not an > >> > > > implementation per say , ..." , I diagree. You can refer to > https:// > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > >> > github.com/spiffe/java-spiffe/blob/master/src/main/java/spiffe/provider/ > >> > > > > >> > > > SpiffeTrustManager.java#L91 <http://spiffetrustmanager.java/#L91> > >> and > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > https://github.com/spiffe/java-spiffe/blob/master/src/main/java/spiffe/ > >> > > > > >> > > > provider/CertificateUtils.java#L100 > >> > > > > >> > > > "that code" is the customization you have for the custom way to > >> check > >> > > > something on top of regular checks. That method is NOT doing > custom > >> > > > truststore loading. It is validating/verifying something in the > >> > > > > >> > > > "custom" > >> > > > > >> > > > way with spiffeId. > >> > > > I bet that without that you won't have a need of the custom > >> algorithm > >> > > > > >> > > > in > >> > > > > >> > > > the first place. > >> > > > > >> > > > Let me know if you agree to this. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks > >> > > > Maulin > >> > > > > >> > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:08 PM Sandeep Mopuri <mpr...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi Maulin, thanks for the discussion. As Harsha pointed out, to > use > >> the > >> > > > KIP492, you need to create a new provider, register a *new* custom > >> > > > algorithm for your keymanager and trustmanager factory > >> implementations. > >> > > > After this, the kafka server configuration can be done as given > >> below > >> > > > > >> > > > # Register the provider class with custom algorithm, say CUSTOM > >> > > > > >> > > > security. > >> > > > > >> > > > provider.classes=com.company.security.CustomProvider > >> > > > <http://provider.classes=com.company.security.customprovider/> > >> > > > <http://security.provider.classes > >> > > > > >> > > > =com.company.security.customprovider/> > >> > > > > >> > > > # Register the keymanager and trustmanager algorithms > >> > > > # These algorithms indicate that the Keymanager and Trustmanagers > >> > > > registered under the algorithm "CUSTOM" needs to be used > >> > > > ssl.trustmanager.algorithm=CUSTOM > >> > > > ssl.keymanager.algorithm=CUSTOM > >> > > > > >> > > > And the customprovider looks like this... > >> > > > > >> > > > public class CustomProvider extends Provider { > >> > > > public CustomProvider() { > >> > > > super("NEW_CUSTOM_PROVIDER", 0.1, "Custom KeyStore and > TrustStore"); > >> > > > super.put("KeyManagerFactory.CUSTOM", "customKeyManagerFactory"); > >> > > > super.put("TrustManagerFactory.CUSTOM", > >> > > > "customTrustManagerFactory"); > >> > > > } > >> > > > } > >> > > > > >> > > > The PR for this is in review and can be found here: > >> > > > > >> > > > https://github.com/ > >> > > > > >> > > > apache/kafka/pull/7090 > >> > > > This PR includes the fixed insertProviderAt function call. > >> > > > > >> > > > On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 9:56 AM Harsha Chintalapani < > >> ka...@harsha.io> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Answers are in-line > >> > > > > >> > > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 10:45 PM, Maulin Vasavada < > >> > > > > >> > > > maulin.vasavada@gmail. > >> > > > > >> > > > com > >> > > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi Colin > >> > > > > >> > > > When I refer to "standard" or "custom" algorithms I am following > >> Java > >> > > > security Provider Terminology. You can refer to > >> > > > https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/security/ > >> > > > StandardNames.html#TrustManagerFactory link I provided earlier in > >> the > >> > > > emails. It says PKIX is the default Algorithm for > >> TrustManagerFactory. > >> > > > > >> > > > 1. For SPIFFE, I am not sure why you are saying 'it does not > >> implement > >> > > > custom algorithms' because the following file clearly indicates > >> that it > >> > > > does use custom algorithm- > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > https://github.com/spiffe/java-spiffe/blob/master/src/main/java/spiffe/ > >> > > > > >> > > > provider/SpiffeProvider.java#L17 > >> > > > > >> > > > Algorithm value: > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > https://github.com/spiffe/java-spiffe/blob/master/src/main/java/spiffe/ > >> > > > > >> > > > provider/SpiffeProviderConstants.java#L6 > >> > > > > >> > > > @Harsha do you want to chime in since you use that provider? > >> > > > > >> > > > Here the "Custom" Algorithm is not an implementation per say , > >> rather > >> > > > > >> > > > used > >> > > > > >> > > > to invoke the custom trust store factory and key manager factory. > >> You > >> > > > > >> > > > are > >> > > > > >> > > > not moving away from "standard" alogrithms that are available. > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > https://github.com/spiffe/java-spiffe/blob/master/src/main/java/spiffe/ > >> > > > > >> > > > provider/SpiffeTrustManager.java > >> > > > > >> > > > As you can see it delegates all the calls of verification of > >> > > > > >> > > > certificate > >> > > > > >> > > > to > >> > > > > >> > > > the default implementation available. > >> > > > So in our implementation we still use PKIX to verify the > certificate > >> > > > chain. So you are not losing anything here and Spiffe is not > >> > > > > >> > > > reimplementing > >> > > > > >> > > > the verification process. > >> > > > > >> > > > 2. I already mentioned in my 3rd point, in my previous post, why > >> using > >> > > > > >> > > > ssl.provider does NOT work. I updated KIP-486 in "rejected > >> > > > > >> > > > alternatives" > >> > > > > >> > > > also why ssl.provider does not work. > >> > > > > >> > > > As mentioned before , provider is the right way to go. I am still > >> not > >> > > > understanding the gap is. > >> > > > If I understand correctly your argument is , provider is going to > >> ask > >> > > > > >> > > > to > >> > > > > >> > > > implement a custom algorithm. > >> > > > My answer to that is , no you are not re-implementing the > algorithm. > >> > > > > >> > > > Please > >> > > > > >> > > > check the above link , TrustManager implementation it delegates > the > >> > > > > >> > > > calls > >> > > > > >> > > > back. There is no need to implement your own here. > >> > > > > >> > > > 3. Security.insertProviderAt() comments were based on assumption > if > >> > > > > >> > > > KIP-492 > >> > > > > >> > > > changes are done and we use that mechanism to configure providers > >> > > > > >> > > > instead > >> > > > > >> > > > of ssl.provider configuration. > >> > > > > >> > > > KIP-492 has patch available and going through review. > >> > > > > >> > > > Can you read my all the points, I mentioned in my previous post, > >> very > >> > > > > >> > > > carefully? I am covering all the aspects in explaining. I am open > to > >> > > > > >> > > > still > >> > > > > >> > > > discuss more to clarify any doubts. > >> > > > > >> > > > "3. If we just use existing ssl.provider kafka configuration then > >> our > >> > > > provider will be used in SSLContext.getInstance(protocol, > provider) > >> > > > > >> > > > call > >> > > > > >> > > > in > >> > > > > >> > > > SslFactory.java <http://sslfactory.java/> < > http://sslfactory.java/> > >> < > >> > > > http://sslfactory.java/> > >> > > > > >> > > > and > >> > > > > >> > > > if our provider does not have > >> > > > implementation for SSLContext.TLS/TLSv1.1/TLSv1.2 etc it breaks > (we > >> > > > > >> > > > tested > >> > > > > >> > > > it). Example: In MyProvider sample above you see that I didn't add > >> > > > SSLContext.TLSv1 as > >> > > > "Service+Algorithm" and that didn't work for me. In SPIFFE > provider > >> you > >> > > > don't have this challenge since you are planning to bypass > >> ssl.provider > >> > > > > >> > > > as > >> > > > > >> > > > you mention in the KIP-492." > >> > > > > >> > > > Yes here you need to pass the protocol that your > >> > > > > >> > > > KeyManager/TrustManager > >> > > > > >> > > > registered with and in no way its deviating from TLS RFC spec. > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > https://github.com/srisatish/openjdk/blob/master/jdk/src/share/classes/ > >> > > > > >> > > > javax/net/ssl/SSLContext.java#L134 > >> > > > > >> > > > My suggestion here is for you to implement a simple Security > >> Provider > >> > > > > >> > > > as > >> > > > > >> > > > you did before and register a Algorithm. You can use the existing > >> > > > implementation in SpiffeProvider and plug in changes where you > need > >> to > >> > > > retrieve the certificates from by making RPC call. > >> > > > > >> > > > Run an end-to-end test with Kafka broker coming up with your > >> provider > >> > > > making calls to RPC call. You do need to pass the "custom > algorithm" > >> > > > > >> > > > that > >> > > > > >> > > > you registered in your key manager to invoke the provider. I think > >> your > >> > > > concern is this approach is replacing the existing known > >> ciphersuites > >> > > > > >> > > > and > >> > > > > >> > > > certificate validation provided by java. Which its not. > >> > > > > >> > > > Now test the TLS connection you can do so via openssl -s_client > >> options > >> > > > > >> > > > to > >> > > > > >> > > > test if everything else is working. > >> > > > > >> > > > I am happy to share configs that we used if you are interested. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks, > >> > > > Harsha > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks > >> > > > Maulin > >> > > > > >> > > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2019 at 9:52 AM Colin McCabe <cmcc...@apache.org> > >> > > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi Maulin, > >> > > > > >> > > > A lot of JSSE providers don't implement custom algorithms. Spire > is > >> a > >> > > > > >> > > > good > >> > > > > >> > > > example of a JSSE provider that doesn't, and yet is still useful > to > >> > > > > >> > > > many > >> > > > > >> > > > people. Your JSSE provider can work fine even if it doesn't > >> implement a > >> > > > custom algorithm. > >> > > > > >> > > > Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand the discussion > >> of > >> > > > Security.insertProviderAt() that you included. SslEngineBuilder > >> doesn't > >> > > > > >> > > > use > >> > > > > >> > > > that API to get the security provider. Instead, it calls > >> > > > "SSLContext.getInstance(protocol, provider)", where provider is > the > >> > > > > >> > > > name > >> > > > > >> > > > of the provider. > >> > > > > >> > > > best, > >> > > > Colin > >> > > > > >> > > > On Sat, Aug 17, 2019, at 20:13, Maulin Vasavada wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > On top of everything above I feel strongly to add the 4th point > >> which > >> > > > > >> > > > is > >> > > > > >> > > > based on Java APIs for TrustManagerFactory.init(KeyStore) ( > >> > > > > >> > > > https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/javax/net/ssl/ > >> > > > TrustManagerFactory.html#init(java.security.KeyStore > >> > > > <http://java.security.keystore/> > >> > > > <http://java.security.keystore/>) > >> > > > ) > >> > > > > >> > > > and KeyManagerFactory.init(KeyStore, char[]) ( > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/javax/net/ssl/KeyManagerFactory > >> > > > . > >> > > > > >> > > > html#init(java.security.KeyStore <http://java.security.keystore/> > >> > > <http:// > >> > > > java.security.keystore/ > >> > > > ,%20char[]) > >> > > > > >> > > > ). > >> > > > > >> > > > 4. The above APIs are intended to support providing "trust/key > >> > > > > >> > > > material" > >> > > > > >> > > > from the user without having to write their own > >> > > > > >> > > > TrustManager/KeyManagers. > >> > > > > >> > > > To quote from the TrustManagerFactory.init()'s documentation > >> > > > > >> > > > "Initializes > >> > > > > >> > > > this factory with a source of certificate authorities and related > >> trust > >> > > > material." > >> > > > To quote from the KeyManagerFactory.init()'s documentation > >> "Initializes > >> > > > this factory with a source of key material." > >> > > > > >> > > > Based on this it is clear that there is a flexibility provided by > >> Java > >> > > > > >> > > > to > >> > > > > >> > > > to enable developers to provide the required trust/key material > >> loaded > >> > > > > >> > > > from > >> > > > > >> > > > "anywhere" without requiring them to write custom provider OR > >> trust/key > >> > > > managers. This same flexibility is reflected in Kafka code also > >> where > >> > > > > >> > > > it > >> > > > > >> > > > loads the trust/keys from a local file and doesn't require > writing a > >> > > > Provider necessarily. If we do NOT have a custom algorithm, it > makes > >> > > > > >> > > > less > >> > > > > >> > > > sense to write a Provider. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks > >> > > > Maulin > >> > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 11:45 PM Maulin Vasavada < > >> > > > > >> > > > maulin.vasav...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi Harsha/Colin > >> > > > > >> > > > I did the sample with a custom Provider for TrustStoreManager and > >> tried > >> > > > using ssl.provider Kafka config AND the way KIP-492 is suggesting > >> (by > >> > > > adding Provider programmatically instead of relying on > >> > > > > >> > > > ssl.provider+java. > >> > > > > >> > > > security. The below sample is followed by my detailed findings. > I'll > >> > > > appreciate if you can go through it carefully and see > >> > > > > >> > > > if you > >> > > > > >> > > > see my point. > >> > > > > >> > > > package providertest; > >> > > > > >> > > > import java.security.Provider <http://java.security.provider/> > >> > <http:// > >> > > > java.security.provider/> > >> > > > > >> > > > <http:// > >> > > > > >> > > > java.security.provider/>; > >> > > > > >> > > > public class MyProvider extends Provider { > >> > > > > >> > > > private static final String name = "MyProvider"; private static > >> double > >> > > > version = 1.0d; > >> > > > private static String info = "Maulin's SSL Provider v"+version; > >> > > > > >> > > > public MyProvider() { > >> > > > super(name, version, info); > >> > > > this.put("TrustManagerFactory.PKIX", > >> > > > > >> > > > "providertest.MyTrustManagerFactory"); > >> > > > > >> > > > } > >> > > > } > >> > > > > >> > > > *Details:* > >> > > > > >> > > > KIP-492 documents that it will use Security.addProvider() assuming > >> it > >> > > > > >> > > > will > >> > > > > >> > > > add it as position '0' which is not a correct assumption. The > >> > > > addProvider()'s documentation says it will add it to the last > >> available > >> > > > position. You may want to correct that to say > >> > > > Security.insertProviderAt(provider, 1). > >> > > > > >> > > > Now coming back to our specific discussion, > >> > > > > >> > > > 1. SPIFFE example uses Custom Algorithm - spiffe. Hence when you > add > >> > > > > >> > > > that > >> > > > > >> > > > provider in the provider list via Security.addProvider() the > >> position > >> > > > > >> > > > where > >> > > > > >> > > > it gets added doesn't matter (even if you don't end up adding it > as > >> > > > > >> > > > first > >> > > > > >> > > > entry) since that is the ONLY provider for SPIFFE specific > algorithm > >> > > > > >> > > > you > >> > > > > >> > > > might have. > >> > > > > >> > > > We do *not* have custom algorithm for Key/Trust StoreMangers. > Which > >> > > > > >> > > > means > >> > > > > >> > > > we have to use X509, PKIX etc "Standard Algorithms" (( > >> > > > > >> > > > https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/technotes/guides/security/ > >> > > > StandardNames.html > >> > > > )) > >> > > > > >> > > > in our provider to override the TrustStoreManager (see my sample > >> code) > >> > > > > >> > > > and > >> > > > > >> > > > KeyStoreManger and KeyManager. This creates another challenge > >> > > > > >> > > > mentioned in > >> > > > > >> > > > the below point. > >> > > > > >> > > > 2. In order to make our Provider for loading custom TrustStore > >> work, we > >> > > > have to add the provider as 'first' in the list since there are > >> others > >> > > > > >> > > > with > >> > > > > >> > > > the same algorithm. > >> > > > > >> > > > However, the programatic way of adding provider > >> > > > (Security.insertProviderAt()) is *not* deterministic for ordering > >> since > >> > > > different code can call the method for a different provider and > >> > > > > >> > > > depending > >> > > > > >> > > > upon the order of the call our provider can be first or pushed > down > >> the > >> > > > list. This can happen very well in any client application using > >> Kafka. > >> > > > > >> > > > This > >> > > > > >> > > > is specially problematic for a case when you want to guarantee > order > >> > > > > >> > > > for a > >> > > > > >> > > > Provider having "Standard Algorithms". > >> > > > > >> > > > If we add our provider in java.security file that definitely > >> guarantees > >> > > > the order(unless somebody calls removeProvider() which is less > >> > > > > >> > > > likely). But > >> > > > > >> > > > if we add our provider in java.security file it will defeat the > >> > > > > >> > > > purpose of > >> > > > > >> > > > the KIP-492. > >> > > > > >> > > > In the gist - Apache Kafka must not rely on "un-deterministic" > >> method > >> > > > > >> > > > to > >> > > > > >> > > > rely on Provider ordering. > >> > > > > >> > > > 3. If we just use existing ssl.provider kafka configuration then > our > >> > > > provider will be used in SSLContext.getInstance(protocol, > provider) > >> > > > > >> > > > call in > >> > > > > >> > > > SslFactory.java <http://sslfactory.java/> < > http://sslfactory.java/> > >> < > >> > > > http://sslfactory.java/> > >> > > > > >> > > > and > >> > > > > >> > > > if our provider does not have implementation for > >> > > > SSLContext.TLS/TLSv1.1/TLSv1.2 etc it breaks > >> > > > > >> > > > (we > >> > > > > >> > > > tested it). Example: > >> > > > > >> > > > In > >> > > > > >> > > > MyProvider sample above you see that I didn't add SSLContext.TLSv1 > >> as > >> > > > "Service+Algorithm" and that didn't work for me. In SPIFFE > provider > >> you > >> > > > don't have this challenge since you are planning to bypass > >> > > > > >> > > > ssl.provider as > >> > > > > >> > > > you mention in the KIP-492. > >> > > > > >> > > > *Overall summary,* > >> > > > > >> > > > 1. Any provider based mechanisms- a) existing ssl.provider and > >> > > > > >> > > > b)KIP-492, > >> > > > > >> > > > for loading key/trust store using "Standard Algorithms" do not > work > >> > > > > >> > > > 2. Approach suggested in our KIP-486 works without any issue and > it > >> is > >> > > > *not* our context specific solve > >> > > > > >> > > > 3. Based on above we feel KIP-492 and KIP-486 are complimentary > >> changes > >> > > > and not contradicting or redundent. > >> > > > > >> > > > If you want we can do a joint session somehow to walk through the > >> > > > > >> > > > sample I > >> > > > > >> > > > have and various experiments I did. I would encourage you to do > >> similar > >> > > > exercise by writing a Provider for "Standard Algorithm" for > >> > > > TrustStoreManager (like our needs) and see what you find since > only > >> > > > > >> > > > writing > >> > > > > >> > > > samples can bring out the complexity/challenges we face. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks > >> > > > Maulin > >> > > > > >> > > > On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 11:15 PM Maulin Vasavada < > >> > > > > >> > > > maulin.vasavada@gmail. > >> > > > > >> > > > com> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Just to update - still working on it. Get to work only on and off > on > >> > > > > >> > > > it :( > >> > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 4:05 PM Maulin Vasavada < > >> > > > > >> > > > maulin.vasav...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi Harsha > >> > > > > >> > > > Let me try to write samples and will let you know. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks > >> > > > Maulin > >> > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 4:00 PM Harsha Ch <harsha...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi Maulin, > >> > > > With java security providers can be as custom you would > >> > > > > >> > > > like > >> > > > > >> > > > it to > >> > > > be. If you only want to to implement a custom way of loading the > >> > > > > >> > > > keystore > >> > > > > >> > > > and truststore and not implement any protocol/encryption handling > >> you > >> > > > > >> > > > can > >> > > > > >> > > > leave them empty and no need to implement. Have you looked into > the > >> > > > > >> > > > links I > >> > > > > >> > > > pasted before? > >> > > > > >> > > > https://github.com/spiffe/spiffe-example/blob/master/java-spiffe/ > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > spiffe-security-provider/src/main/java/spiffe/api/provider/SpiffeKeyStore. > >> > > > > >> > > > java > >> > > > > >> > > > https://github.com/spiffe/spiffe-example/blob/master/java-spiffe/ > >> > > > spiffe-security-provider/src/main/java/spiffe/api/provider/ > >> > > > SpiffeTrustManager.java <http://spiffetrustmanager.java/> > <http:// > >> > > > spiffetrustmanager.java/> > >> > > > > >> > > > https://github.com/spiffe/spiffe-example/blob/master/java-spiffe/ > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > spiffe-security-provider/src/main/java/spiffe/api/provider/SpiffeProvider. > >> > > > > >> > > > java > >> > > > > >> > > > Can you please tell me which methods are too complex in above to > >> > > > > >> > > > implement > >> > > > > >> > > > or unnecessary? You are changing anything in SSL/TLS > implementations > >> > > > provided by > >> > > > > >> > > > All of the implementations delegating the checks to the default > >> > > > implementation anyway. > >> > > > Spire agent is an example, its nothing but a GRPC server listening > >> > > > > >> > > > on a > >> > > > > >> > > > unix domain socket . Above code is making a RPC call to the local > >> > > > > >> > > > daemon > >> > > > > >> > > > to > >> > > > get the certificate and keys. The mechanics are pretty much same > as > >> > > > > >> > > > what > >> > > > > >> > > > you are asking for. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks, > >> > > > Harsha > >> > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 3:47 PM Maulin Vasavada < > >> > > > > >> > > > maulin.vasav...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Imagine a scenario like - We know we have a custom KMS and as a > >> > > > > >> > > > Kafka > >> > > > > >> > > > owner > >> > > > > >> > > > we want to comply to using that KMS source to load keys/certs. As > >> > > > > >> > > > a > >> > > > > >> > > > Kafka > >> > > > > >> > > > owner we know how to integrate with KMS but doesn't necessarily > >> > > > > >> > > > have > >> > > > > >> > > > to > >> > > > > >> > > > know anything about cipher suites, algorithms, and SSL/TLS > >> > > > > >> > > > implementation. > >> > > > > >> > > > Going the Provider way requires to know lot more than we should, > >> > > > > >> > > > isn't it? > >> > > > > >> > > > Not that we would have concern/shy-away knowing those details - > >> > > > > >> > > > but > >> > > > > >> > > > if we > >> > > > > >> > > > don't have to - why should we? > >> > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 3:23 PM Maulin Vasavada < > >> > > > > >> > > > maulin.vasav...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi Harsha > >> > > > > >> > > > We don't have spire (or similar) agents and we do not have > >> > > > > >> > > > keys/certs > >> > > > > >> > > > locally on any brokers. To elaborate more on my previous email, > >> > > > > >> > > > I agree that Java security Providers are used in much broader > >> > > > > >> > > > sense > >> > > > > >> > > > - to > >> > > > > >> > > > have a particular implementation of an algorithm, use specific > >> > > > > >> > > > cipher > >> > > > > >> > > > suites for SSL , OR in our current team's case have a > >> > > > > >> > > > particular > >> > > > > >> > > > way to > >> > > > > >> > > > leverage pre-generated SSL sessions. However, the scope of our > >> > > > > >> > > > KIP > >> > > > > >> > > > (486) > >> > > > > >> > > > is > >> > > > > >> > > > much restricted than that. We merely intend to provide a custom > >> > > > keystore/truststore for our SSL connections and not really worry > >> > > > > >> > > > about > >> > > > > >> > > > underlying specific SSL/TLS implementation. This simplifies it > >> > > > > >> > > > a > >> > > > > >> > > > lot for > >> > > > > >> > > > us to keep the concerns separate and clear. > >> > > > > >> > > > I feel our approach is more complimentary such that it allows > >> > > > > >> > > > for > >> > > > > >> > > > using > >> > > > > >> > > > keystores of choice while retaining the flexibility to use any > >> > > > underlying/available Provider for actually making the SSL call. > >> > > > > >> > > > We agree with KIP-492's approach based on Providers (and Java's > >> > > > recommendation), but also strongly believe that our approach can > >> > > > > >> > > > compliment > >> > > > > >> > > > it very effectively for reasons explained above. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks > >> > > > Maulin > >> > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 3:05 PM Harsha Chintalapani < > >> > > > > >> > > > ka...@harsha.io > >> > > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi Maulin, > >> > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Aug 08, 2019 at 2:04 PM, Maulin Vasavada < > >> > > > > >> > > > maulin.vasavada@gmail. > >> > > > > >> > > > com> > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi Harsha > >> > > > > >> > > > The reason we rejected the SslProvider route is that - we > >> > > > > >> > > > only > >> > > > > >> > > > needed > >> > > > > >> > > > a > >> > > > > >> > > > custom way to load keys/certs. Not touch any policy that > >> > > > > >> > > > existing > >> > > > > >> > > > Providers > >> > > > > >> > > > govern like SunJSSE Provider. > >> > > > > >> > > > We have exactly the same requirements to load certs and keys > >> > > > > >> > > > through > >> > > > > >> > > > spire > >> > > > > >> > > > agent. We used security.provider to do that exactly. I am not > >> > > > > >> > > > sure > >> > > > > >> > > > why > >> > > > > >> > > > you > >> > > > > >> > > > would be modifying any policies provided by default SunJSSE > >> > > > > >> > > > provider. > >> > > > > >> > > > Can > >> > > > > >> > > > you give me an example of having custom provider that will > >> > > > > >> > > > override an > >> > > > > >> > > > existing policy in SunJSSE provider. > >> > > > > >> > > > As pointed out earlier, this kip > >> > > > > >> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/ > >> > > > KIP-492%3A+Add+java+security+providers+in+Kafka+Security+config > >> > > > > >> > > > allows > >> > > > you to load security.provider through config. > >> > > > Take a look at the examples I gave before > >> > > > > >> > > > https://github.com/spiffe/spiffe-example/blob/master/java-spiffe/ > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > spiffe-security-provider/src/main/java/spiffe/api/provider/SpiffeProvider. > >> > > > > >> > > > java > >> > > > > >> > > > It registers KeyManagerFactory and TrustManagerFactory and > >> > > > > >> > > > Keystore > >> > > > > >> > > > algorithm. > >> > > > Implement your custom way of loading Keystore in here > >> > > > > >> > > > https://github.com/spiffe/spiffe-example/blob/master/java-spiffe/ > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > spiffe-security-provider/src/main/java/spiffe/api/provider/SpiffeKeyStore. > >> > > > > >> > > > java > >> > > > > >> > > > and Trust manager like here > >> > > > > >> > > > https://github.com/spiffe/spiffe-example/blob/master/java-spiffe/ > >> > > > spiffe-security-provider/src/main/java/spiffe/api/provider/ > >> > > > SpiffeTrustManager.java <http://spiffetrustmanager.java/> > <http:// > >> > > > spiffetrustmanager.java/> > >> > > > > >> > > > In your Kafka client you can set the security.provider to your > >> > > > > >> > > > custom > >> > > > > >> > > > implementation and with this fix > >> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-8191 you can set > >> > > > keyManagerAlgorigthm and trustManagerAlgorithm configs. > >> > > > > >> > > > All of this is in your clients and broker side and do not need > >> > > > > >> > > > to > >> > > > > >> > > > touch > >> > > > > >> > > > any > >> > > > policy changes at JVM level. You'll register the providers in > >> > > > > >> > > > the > >> > > > > >> > > > priority > >> > > > > >> > > > order and can still have SunJSSE provider and have your custom > >> > > > > >> > > > provider > >> > > > > >> > > > to > >> > > > > >> > > > implement the key and trust managers. > >> > > > > >> > > > The ask here is different than KIP-492. We don't have any need > >> > > > > >> > > > to > >> > > > > >> > > > modify/specify the algorithm parameter. Does that make sense? > >> > > > > >> > > > The ask in KIP is introducing new interfaces where the KIP's > >> > > > goal/motivation can be achieved through the security.provider > >> > > > > >> > > > and > >> > > > > >> > > > we > >> > > > > >> > > > worked > >> > > > on similar goal without touching any Keystore or Truststore > >> > > > > >> > > > interfaces. > >> > > > > >> > > > My advise is against changing or introducing new interfaces > >> > > > > >> > > > when > >> > > > > >> > > > it can > >> > > > > >> > > > work through security.provider. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks, > >> > > > Harsha > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks > >> > > > > >> > > > Maulin > >> > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 7:48 AM Harsha Chintalapani < > >> > > > > >> > > > ka...@harsha.io> > >> > > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > In your KIP you added security. provider as rejected > >> > > > > >> > > > alternative > >> > > > > >> > > > and > >> > > > > >> > > > specified "its not the correct way". Do you mind explaining > >> > > > > >> > > > why > >> > > > > >> > > > its > >> > > > > >> > > > not? I > >> > > > > >> > > > didn't find any evidence in Java docs to say so. Contrary to > >> > > > > >> > > > your > >> > > > > >> > > > statement > >> > > > > >> > > > it does say in the java docs > >> > > > " However, please note that a provider can be used to > >> > > > > >> > > > implement > >> > > > > >> > > > any > >> > > > > >> > > > security service in Java that uses a pluggable architecture > >> > > > > >> > > > with > >> > > > > >> > > > a > >> > > > > >> > > > choice > >> > > > > >> > > > of implementations that fit underneath." > >> > > > > >> > > > Java Security Providers have been used by other projects to > >> > > > > >> > > > provide > >> > > > > >> > > > such > >> > > > > >> > > > integration . I am not sure if you looked into Spiffe > >> > > > > >> > > > project to > >> > > > > >> > > > efficiently distribute certificates but here is an example of > >> > > > > >> > > > Java > >> > > > > >> > > > provider > >> > > > > >> > > > https://github.com/spiffe/spiffe-example/blob/master/java-spiffe/ > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > spiffe-security-provider/src/main/java/spiffe/api/provider/SpiffeProvider. > >> > > > > >> > > > java which > >> > > > obtains certificates from local daemons. > >> > > > These integrations are being used in Tomcat, Jetty etc.. We > >> > > > > >> > > > are > >> > > > > >> > > > also > >> > > > > >> > > > using > >> > > > > >> > > > Security provider to do the same in our Kafka clusters. So > >> > > > > >> > > > unless I > >> > > > > >> > > > see > >> > > > > >> > > > more evidence why security.provider doesn't work for you > >> > > > > >> > > > adding > >> > > > > >> > > > new > >> > > > > >> > > > interfaces while there exists more cleaner way of achieving > >> > > > > >> > > > the > >> > > > > >> > > > goals > >> > > > > >> > > > of > >> > > > > >> > > > this KIP is unnecessary and breaks the well known security > >> > > > > >> > > > interfaces > >> > > > > >> > > > provided by Java itself. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks, > >> > > > Harsha > >> > > > > >> > > > On Thu, Aug 08, 2019 at 6:54 AM, Harsha Chintalapani < > >> > > > > >> > > > ka...@harsha.io > >> > > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Hi Maulin, > >> > > > Not sure if you looked at my previous replies. This > >> > > > > >> > > > changes > >> > > > > >> > > > are not required as there is already security Provider to do > >> > > > > >> > > > what you > >> > > > > >> > > > are > >> > > > > >> > > > proposing. This KIP > >> > > > > >> > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/ > >> > > > > >> > > > KIP-492%3A+Add+java+security+providers+in+Kafka+Security+config > >> > > > > >> > > > also > >> > > > > >> > > > addresses easy registration of such providers. > >> > > > > >> > > > Thanks, > >> > > > Harsha > >> > > > > >> > > > On Wed, Aug 07, 2019 at 11:31 PM, Maulin Vasavada > >> > > > > >> > > > <maulin.vasavada@gmail. > >> > > > > >> > > > com> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Bump! Can somebody please review this? > >> > > > > >> > > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 1:51 PM Maulin Vasavada < > >> > > > > >> > > > maulin.vasav...@gmail.com> > >> > > > > >> > > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Bump! Can somebody please review this? > >> > > > > >> > > > -- > >> > > > Thanks, > >> > > > M.Sai Sandeep > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >
