I accept that this need not be linked to the jira-users issue itself, except that it made it much more difficult to enforce that contributors have ICLAs on file if we choose to go down that route. I will send out another mail asking for the project's position on ICLAs for all contributors, and what the committers should be responsible for in a separate mail.
Also, yes, even if ICLA is on file, that does not imply that the contributor had rights to contribute, but it does put the legal responsibility on the contributor, rather than on the project or the committers. On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Thejas Nair <thejas.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > I would like to emphasise again that this change in adding jira-users, > does not change Hive's policy regarding ICLA. In hive, we never > required people to file ICLA before submitting a patch. > > Your question regarding ICLA requirements merits a discussion on its > own. Even if ICLA is on file, that does not automatically imply that > the contributor had all rights to contribute. It just means that such > a contributor has lied, if he didn't have rights to contribute. > > > > On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Sushanth Sowmyan <khorg...@gmail.com> wrote: >> I will defer to the larger community's opinion on this, and from the >> looks of it, Apache does suggest, but not require (but does heavily >> suggest as desired) an ICLA from contributors, but I kinda agree with >> https://julien.ponge.org/blog/in-defense-of-contributor-license-agreements/ >> in the place ICLAs have with projects. >> >> The relevant portion, as I see it, is this: >> >>>> Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions of this >>>> Agreement, You hereby grant to the Foundation and to recipients of >>>> software distributed by the Foundation a perpetual, worldwide, >>>> non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable copyright license to >>>> reproduce, prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly >>>> perform, sublicense, and distribute Your Contributions and such derivative >>>> works. >>> This is, I think, the first key point. Contributors explictly grant a >>> license to the upstream project maintainers to use contributions. >>> Sublicensing is important, too, as it opens licensing under new terms in >>> the future, even if the contributor is out of reach. >> >> I feel like without having an ICLA requirement for contributors(and >> yes, I acknowledge that being a jira-user and requesting in the >> mailing list did not already cover this - it was my mistaken memory >> that felt like it did from back when the jira had a UI element >> granting ASF rights), committers open themselves to the possibility >> that we +1 and accept a contribution that we will wind up being >> responsible for that should not have been legally acceptable. >> >> I also agree with Lefty that taken to an extreme, this could apply for >> docs and wiki, etc, and that does sound ludicrous, but still a place >> we open ourselves to legal responsibility. If $COMPANY sues apache >> because we have some content in our wiki that we should not have, >> removal is not hard. If that happens with our git repo, we're in for a >> not-fun exercise in rewriting git history. >> >> I also concede the advantages in being more "open" by making it easier >> to contribute, and indeed the link I paste above does refer to people >> that will not contribute to a project that has a CLA requirement, but >> I'm not completely satisfied by not addressing this issue in some >> manner either. >> >> This is not a -1 for this move, and indeed, would/could not be a >> binding one even if it were so, but I would like to understand what >> the hive project's legal position is on the cases where a committer >> commits a patch that a contributor contributed that they did not have >> rights to contribute. >> >> >> On Tue, May 5, 2015 at 11:11 AM, Thejas Nair <thejas.n...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> I guess the limit is around the number of entries in the contributor >>> group, and adding a jira-user group would not count towards that. >>> Let me give it a try. >>> >>> That INFRA jira is another good reason to add jira-users group to >>> contributors! >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 11:31 PM, Carl Steinbach <cwsteinb...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> It turns out there's a limit on the number of people you can list as >>>> "contributors" for any given JIRA project. I bumped into this a couple >>>> months back when I tried adding someone to the list and found this: >>>> >>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-7293 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 10:02 PM, Lefty Leverenz <leftylever...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sure, go for it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- Lefty >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Thejas Nair <thejas.n...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > As Lefty noted, we don't require anyone being made a jira contributor >>>>> > or uploading a patch to have ICLA on file. Apache does not require >>>>> > that, though that is encouraged. >>>>> > So allowing any user to be a contributor without asking for permission >>>>> > does not change things with respect to ICLA. >>>>> > >>>>> > Looks like people are on board with this. I will change the settings >>>>> > in another day as long as there are no objections. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > On Sat, May 2, 2015 at 11:44 PM, Lefty Leverenz <leftylever...@gmail.com >>>>> > >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> > > Hive only requires committers to sign ICLAs. That doesn't seem to >>>>> > provide >>>>> > > any legal protection when non-committers contribute patches. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > In days gone by, JIRA made us assign rights to Apache when we attached >>>>> a >>>>> > > patch to an issue. That's still in the instructions for Contributing >>>>> > Your >>>>> > > Work >>>>> > > < >>>>> > >>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/Hive/HowToContribute#HowToContribute-ContributingYourWork >>>>> > >: >>>>> > > "Please note that the attachment should be granted license to ASF for >>>>> > > inclusion in ASF work" although the JIRA GUI doesn't have that option >>>>> > > anymore. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > See Apache's page on licenses <http://www.apache.org/licenses/#clas>: >>>>> > "The >>>>> > > ASF desires that all contributors of ideas, code, or documentation to >>>>> the >>>>> > > Apache projects complete, sign, and submit (via postal mail, fax or >>>>> > email) >>>>> > > an Individual Contributor License Agreement" *(highlighting added)*. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > So documentation in the wiki should also be covered by ICLAs. Carried >>>>> to >>>>> > > extremes, anyone who participates on a mailing list, comments on a >>>>> > > JIRA >>>>> > > issue, or reviews a patch should sign an ICLA. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > -- Lefty >>>>> > > >>>>> > > On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 12:30 AM, Sushanth Sowmyan <khorg...@gmail.com> >>>>> > > wrote: >>>>> > > >>>>> > >> I seem to remember something on the lines of that the traditional >>>>> reason >>>>> > >> was so that a project could be sure that the contributor had an ICLA >>>>> on >>>>> > >> file with apache so as to not expose the project to legal risk of >>>>> > >> code >>>>> > that >>>>> > >> was contributed that the contributor did not have any rights to. We >>>>> > should >>>>> > >> probably check with folks from other projects who've had experience >>>>> > dealing >>>>> > >> with stuff like this? >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> Maybe Owen? >>>>> > >> On May 2, 2015 17:08, "Thejas Nair" <thejas.n...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> > Sending again, didn't make to the list for some reason. >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>> > >> > From: Thejas Nair <thejas.n...@gmail.com> >>>>> > >> > Date: Fri, May 1, 2015 at 1:53 PM >>>>> > >> > Subject: [DISCUSS] Allow any jira user to assign HIVE bugs to them >>>>> > self >>>>> > >> > To: dev <dev@hive.apache.org> >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > I am not sure why a user needs to ask to be added as a contributor >>>>> in >>>>> > >> > HIVE jira to be able to assign jiras to themselves. I don't see it >>>>> > >> > adding any value. Also the jira ADMIN UI for adding this is usually >>>>> > >> > flaky. >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > I think we should let any jira users assign the bugs to them self. >>>>> > >> > Looks like adding jira-users group to contributions would do it. >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > Thoughts ? >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > Thanks, >>>>> > >> > Thejas >>>>> > >> > >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >>>>>
