Hi Thejas, Thanks for your input. I thought about this, but I don't really feel it necessary to have a "transition" stage. After all, Hive CLI is a command line tool with well-defined command line options. That's the "interface" that we need to support. We are just changing the implementation. Through comprehensive testing, we hope to discover most of the issues.
On the other hand, if we have such an transition, there might never be a user bothering to flip the env variable and the transition doesn't really build up more confidence. In addition, if we provide either a transition or switch for every implementation change, wouldn't users be overwhelmed by those transitions or switches. Thoughts? Thanks, Xuefu On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Thejas Nair <thejas.n...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Xuefu, > What is the plan you have in mind for a transition to using beeline > from within hive? > I assume there is going to be some translation from hive cli options > and commands to beeline. Is that right ? > Once the translation is in place, how would the switch happen ? > > I am thinking that once there is a hive-cli compatible beeline mode, > there can be an option to switch between beeline and hive cli codebase > . > For example, > In hive version X , when an environment variable CLI_USE_BEELINE=true > environment variable is set, "hive" command uses beeline underneath > (default remains cli codepath, so that users can start experimenting > with "hive" commands beeline mode). > In hive version Y > X, by default "hive" command starts using beeline > underneath. > > Is it something like this what you have in mind ? > > Thanks, > Thejas > > > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 5:31 PM, Xuefu Zhang <xzh...@cloudera.com> wrote: > > FYI, I have created an uber JIRA for this: > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/HIVE-10511. > > > > Thanks, > > Xuefu > > > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 4:54 PM, Xuefu Zhang <xzh...@cloudera.com> > wrote: > > > >> Yes, Olga. I will create JIRAs to track those. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Xuefu > >> > >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 4:51 PM, Olga L. Natkovich < > >> ol...@yahoo-inc.com.invalid> wrote: > >> > >>> We would need to build a test suite that makes sure that new > >>> implementation is compatible with the old one for users to adopt it. We > >>> would also need some benchmarks to compare performance. Could you > please > >>> include this in the proposal as well. > >>> Thanks, > >>> Olga > >>> From: Xuefu Zhang <xzh...@cloudera.com> > >>> To: "dev@hive.apache.org" <dev@hive.apache.org> > >>> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 4:46 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Deprecating Hive CLI > >>> > >>> Existing implementation of Hive CLI will be replaced, so that Hive > >>> community don't need to maintain two code paths for the same thing. > That's > >>> basically what option #2 provides. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 4:01 PM, Alexander Pivovarov < > >>> apivova...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> > Does it mean that existing Hive CLI will be killed? > >>> > > >>> > On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 3:46 PM, Xuefu Zhang <xzh...@cloudera.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > > >>> > > To be precise, the proposal is NOT deprecating, but more of > changing > >>> the > >>> > > implementation of the Hive CLI using beeline, which seems in > >>> consensus. > >>> > > > >>> > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 2:47 PM, Alexander Pivovarov < > >>> > apivova...@gmail.com > >>> > > > > >>> > > wrote: > >>> > > > >>> > > > I just started the survey on Deprecating Hive CLI. Please share > you > >>> > > > opinion. > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Deprecating Hive CLI: > >>> > > > https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/XFHLM57 > >>> > > > > >>> > > > Results: > >>> > > > https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-JHYY5DR9/ > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Alexander Pivovarov < > >>> > > apivova...@gmail.com > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > wrote: > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > Xuefu, > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I'm just saying that most of the shells (e.g. mysql or > accumulo) > >>> > > reserve > >>> > > > > -u for user. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > I believe lots of stuff in Hive take MySQL as an example. > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > Alex > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Xuefu Zhang < > xzh...@cloudera.com > >>> > > >>> > > > wrote: > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > >> Alex, > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> Just to be sure, we are talking about replace Hive CLI, not > mysql > >>> > and > >>> > > > >> accumulo command line shells. Thus, I'm not sure this is > >>> relavent. > >>> > > > >> Regardless, I think we'd better have some writeup in the > proposed > >>> > uber > >>> > > > >> JIRA > >>> > > > >> so that everyone knows what we are signing up. > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> Thanks, > >>> > > > >> Xuefu > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 12:57 PM, Alexander Pivovarov < > >>> > > > >> apivova...@gmail.com> > >>> > > > >> wrote: > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > >> > Mysql and accumulo command line shells use -u to pass <user> > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > Can beeline use -u as well? Currently -u is reserved for > URL? > >>> > > > >> > On Apr 27, 2015 12:42 PM, "Xuefu Zhang" < > xzh...@cloudera.com> > >>> > > wrote: > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > Thanks to all for the input. I assume that we have a > >>> consensus > >>> > > that > >>> > > > >> we'd > >>> > > > >> > > like to keep Hive as an alias to beeline with embedded HS2 > >>> and > >>> > > make > >>> > > > >> user > >>> > > > >> > > transition as smooth as possible by identifying gaps and > >>> fixing > >>> > > > >> issues. > >>> > > > >> > I'm > >>> > > > >> > > going to create an umbrella JIRA and subtasks to track the > >>> > > progress. > >>> > > > >> > Please > >>> > > > >> > > let me know if you have further questions. > >>> > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >> > > Thanks, > >>> > > > >> > > Xuefu > >>> > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >> > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 12:59 AM, Lars Francke < > >>> > > > >> lars.fran...@gmail.com> > >>> > > > >> > > wrote: > >>> > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > Yes, well put. It is about usability and "least > surprise". > >>> > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > >> > > > So if people wouldn't have to deal with JDBC syntax by > >>> default > >>> > > and > >>> > > > >> > could > >>> > > > >> > > > use "hive" instead of "beeline" to start that'd be good. > >>> > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > >> > > > On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 12:38 AM, Alan Gates < > >>> > > > alanfga...@gmail.com> > >>> > > > >> > > wrote: > >>> > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > >> > > >> If I understand correctly this is an argument about > >>> > usability, > >>> > > > not > >>> > > > >> > > >> functionality. So if Hive still had the CLI but it > >>> happened > >>> > to > >>> > > > use > >>> > > > >> > > either > >>> > > > >> > > >> HS2 or embedded HS2 (depending on configuration) > >>> underneath > >>> > > your > >>> > > > >> > > concerns > >>> > > > >> > > >> would be addressed. Is that correct? > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> Alan. > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> Lars Francke <lars.fran...@gmail.com> > >>> > > > >> > > >> April 23, 2015 at 15:53 > >>> > > > >> > > >> I've been at about 20 different customers in the years > >>> since > >>> > > > >> Beeline > >>> > > > >> > has > >>> > > > >> > > >> been added. I can only think of a single one that has > used > >>> > > > beeline. > >>> > > > >> > The > >>> > > > >> > > >> instinct is to use "hive", partially because it is > easy to > >>> > > > remember > >>> > > > >> > and > >>> > > > >> > > >> intuitive and because it is easier to use. I end up > >>> googling > >>> > > the > >>> > > > >> > stupid > >>> > > > >> > > >> JDBC syntax every single time. > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> I know this might be a bit "out there" but I propose > >>> > something > >>> > > > >> else: > >>> > > > >> > > >> 1) Rename (or link) "beeline" to "hive" > >>> > > > >> > > >> 2) Add a "--hiveserver2" (or "--jdbc" or "--beeline") > >>> option > >>> > to > >>> > > > the > >>> > > > >> > > >> "hive" command to get the current "beeline", this'd > keep > >>> the > >>> > > CLI > >>> > > > as > >>> > > > >> > > >> default, we could also add a "--legacy" or "--cli" > option > >>> and > >>> > > > make > >>> > > > >> > > >> "hiveserver2/beeline" the default. > >>> > > > >> > > >> 3) Add a "--embedded-hs2" option to the "hive" command > to > >>> get > >>> > > an > >>> > > > >> > > embedded > >>> > > > >> > > >> HS2 in Beeline > >>> > > > >> > > >> 4) Add some documentation to beeline reminding people > on > >>> > > startup > >>> > > > of > >>> > > > >> > > >> beeline on how to connect and how to use embedded mode > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> The fact is that the old shell just works for lots of > >>> people > >>> > > and > >>> > > > >> > there's > >>> > > > >> > > >> just no need for beeline for these people. Also the > name > >>> is > >>> > > > >> confusing > >>> > > > >> > - > >>> > > > >> > > >> especially for non-native speakers. It's not a common > >>> word so > >>> > > > it's > >>> > > > >> not > >>> > > > >> > > easy > >>> > > > >> > > >> to remember. > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> Alan Gates <alanfga...@gmail.com> > >>> > > > >> > > >> April 23, 2015 at 15:35 > >>> > > > >> > > >> Xuefu, thanks for getting this discussion started. > >>> Limiting > >>> > > our > >>> > > > >> code > >>> > > > >> > > >> paths is definitely a plus. My inclination would be > to go > >>> > > > towards > >>> > > > >> > > option > >>> > > > >> > > >> 2. A few questions: > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> 1) Is there any functionality in CLI that's not in > >>> beeline? > >>> > > > >> > > >> 2) If I understand correctly option 2 would have an > >>> implicit > >>> > > HS2 > >>> > > > in > >>> > > > >> > > >> process when a user runs the CLI. Would this be > >>> available in > >>> > > > >> option 1 > >>> > > > >> > > as > >>> > > > >> > > >> well? > >>> > > > >> > > >> 3) Are there any performance implications, since now > >>> commands > >>> > > > have > >>> > > > >> to > >>> > > > >> > > hop > >>> > > > >> > > >> through a thrift/jdbc loop even in the embedded mode? > >>> > > > >> > > >> 4) If we choose option 2 how backward compatible can we > >>> make > >>> > > it? > >>> > > > >> Will > >>> > > > >> > > >> users need to change any scripts they have that use the > >>> CLI? > >>> > > Do > >>> > > > we > >>> > > > >> > have > >>> > > > >> > > >> tests that will make sure of this? > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> Alan. > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> Xuefu Zhang <xzh...@cloudera.com> > >>> > > > >> > > >> April 23, 2015 at 14:43 > >>> > > > >> > > >> Hi all, > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> I'd like to revive the discussion about the fate of > Hive > >>> CLI, > >>> > > as > >>> > > > >> this > >>> > > > >> > > >> topic > >>> > > > >> > > >> has haunted us several times including [1][2]. It looks > >>> to me > >>> > > > that > >>> > > > >> > there > >>> > > > >> > > >> is > >>> > > > >> > > >> a consensus that it's not wise for Hive community to > keep > >>> > both > >>> > > > Hive > >>> > > > >> > CLI > >>> > > > >> > > as > >>> > > > >> > > >> it is as well as Beeline + HS2. However, I don't > believe > >>> that > >>> > > no > >>> > > > >> > action > >>> > > > >> > > is > >>> > > > >> > > >> the best action for us. From discussion so far, I see > the > >>> > > > following > >>> > > > >> > > >> proposals: > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> 1. Deprecating Hive CLI and advise that users use > Beeline. > >>> > > > >> > > >> 2. Make Hive CLI as naming flavor to beeline with > embedded > >>> > > mode. > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> Frankly, I don't see much difference between the two > >>> > > approaches. > >>> > > > >> > Keeping > >>> > > > >> > > >> an > >>> > > > >> > > >> alias at script or even code level isn't that much > work. > >>> > > However, > >>> > > > >> > > >> shouldn't > >>> > > > >> > > >> we pick a direction and start moving to it? If there is > >>> any > >>> > > gaps > >>> > > > >> > between > >>> > > > >> > > >> beeline embedded and Hive CLI, we should identify and > >>> fill in > >>> > > > >> those. > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> I'd love to hear the thoughts from the community and > hope > >>> > this > >>> > > > >> time we > >>> > > > >> > > >> will > >>> > > > >> > > >> have concrete action items to work on. > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> Thanks, > >>> > > > >> > > >> Xuefu > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> [1] > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/hive-dev/201412.mbox/%3C5485E1BE.3060709%40hortonworks.com%3E > >>> > > > >> > > >> [2] > >>> > > > >> > https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@hive.apache.org/msg112378.html > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > >> > >>> > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> >
