Hi,
Thanks for your feedback. I have a servel of questions.
1. Do you mean split this into two JIRAs or two PRs or two commits in a
PR?
2. For the first task, if the flink user disables the Unaligned
Checkpoint, do we ignore max buffers per channel? Because the overdraft
isn't useful for the Aligned Checkpoint, it still needs to wait for
downstream Task to consume.
3. For the second task
- The default value of maxOverdraftBuffersPerPartition may also need
to be discussed.
- If the user disables the Unaligned Checkpoint, can we set the
maxOverdraftBuffersPerPartition=0? Because the overdraft isn't useful for
the Aligned Checkpoint.
4. For the legacy source
- If enabling the Unaligned Checkpoint, it uses up to
maxOverdraftBuffersPerPartition buffers.
- If disabling the UC, it doesn't use the overdraft buffer.
- Do you think it's ok?
- Actually, we added the checkAvailable logic for LegacySource in our
internal version. It works well.
5. For the benchmark, do you have any suggestions? I submitted the PR
[1].
[1] https://github.com/apache/flink-benchmarks/pull/54
Thanks
fanrui
On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 7:41 PM Anton Kalashnikov <kaa....@yandex.com>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> We discuss about it a little with Dawid Wysakowicz. Here is some
> conclusion:
>
> First of all, let's split this into two tasks.
>
> The first task is about ignoring max buffers per channel. This means if
> we request a memory segment from LocalBufferPool and the
> maxBuffersPerChannel is reached for this channel, we just ignore that
> and continue to allocate buffer while LocalBufferPool has it(it is
> actually not a overdraft).
>
> The second task is about the real overdraft. I am pretty convinced now
> that we, unfortunately, need configuration for limitation of overdraft
> number(because it is not ok if one subtask allocates all buffers of one
> TaskManager considering that several different jobs can be submitted on
> this TaskManager). So idea is to have
> maxOverdraftBuffersPerPartition(technically to say per LocalBufferPool).
> In this case, when a limit of buffers in LocalBufferPool is reached,
> LocalBufferPool can request additionally from NetworkBufferPool up to
> maxOverdraftBuffersPerPartition buffers.
>
>
> But it is still not clear how to handle LegacySource since it actually
> works as unlimited flatmap and it will always work in overdraft mode
> which is not a target. So we still need to think about that.
>
>
> 29.04.2022 11:11, rui fan пишет:
> > Hi Anton Kalashnikov,
> >
> > I think you agree with we should limit the maximum number of overdraft
> > segments that each LocalBufferPool can apply for, right?
> >
> > I prefer to hard code the maxOverdraftBuffers due to don't add the new
> > configuration. And I hope to hear more from the community.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > fanrui
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 12:39 PM rui fan <1996fan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Anton Kalashnikov,
> >>
> >> Thanks for your very clear reply, I think you are totally right.
> >>
> >> The 'maxBuffersNumber - buffersInUseNumber' can be used as the
> >> overdraft buffer, it won't need the new buffer configuration.Flink users
> >> can turn up the maxBuffersNumber to control the overdraft buffer size.
> >>
> >> Also, I‘d like to add some information. For safety, we should limit the
> >> maximum number of overdraft segments that each LocalBufferPool
> >> can apply for.
> >>
> >> Why do we limit it?
> >> Some operators don't check the `recordWriter.isAvailable` during
> >> processing records, such as LegacySource. I have mentioned it in
> >> FLINK-26759 [1]. I'm not sure if there are other cases.
> >>
> >> If don't add the limitation, the LegacySource will use up all remaining
> >> memory in the NetworkBufferPool when the backpressure is severe.
> >>
> >> How to limit it?
> >> I prefer to hard code the `maxOverdraftBuffers=numberOfSubpartitions`
> >> in the constructor of LocalBufferPool. The maxOverdraftBuffers is just
> >> for safety, and it should be enough for most flink jobs. Or we can set
> >> `maxOverdraftBuffers=Math.max(numberOfSubpartitions, 10)` to handle
> >> some jobs of low parallelism.
> >>
> >> Also if user don't enable the Unaligned Checkpoint, we can set
> >> maxOverdraftBuffers=0 in the constructor of LocalBufferPool. Because
> >> the overdraft isn't useful for the Aligned Checkpoint.
> >>
> >> Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks a lot.
> >>
> >> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-26759
> >>
> >> Best wishes
> >> fanrui
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 12:29 AM Anton Kalashnikov <kaa....@yandex.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi fanrui,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for creating the FLIP.
> >>>
> >>> In general, I think the overdraft is good idea and it should help in
> >>> described above cases. Here are my thoughts about configuration:
> >>>
> >>> Please, correct me if I am wrong but as I understand right now we have
> >>> following calculation.
> >>>
> >>> maxBuffersNumber(per TaskManager) = Network memory(calculated via
> >>> taskmanager.memory.network.fraction, taskmanager.memory.network.min,
> >>> taskmanager.memory.network.max and total memory size) /
> >>> taskmanager.memory.segment-size.
> >>>
> >>> requiredBuffersNumber(per TaskManager) = (exclusive buffers *
> >>> parallelism + floating buffers) * subtasks number in TaskManager
> >>>
> >>> buffersInUseNumber = real number of buffers which used at current
> >>> moment(always <= requiredBuffersNumber)
> >>>
> >>> Ideally requiredBuffersNumber should be equal to maxBuffersNumber which
> >>> allows Flink work predictibly. But if requiredBuffersNumber >
> >>> maxBuffersNumber sometimes it is also fine(but not good) since not all
> >>> required buffers really mandatory(e.g. it is ok if Flink can not
> >>> allocate floating buffers)
> >>>
> >>> But if maxBuffersNumber > requiredBuffersNumber, as I understand Flink
> >>> just never use these leftovers buffers(maxBuffersNumber -
> >>> requiredBuffersNumber). Which I propose to use. ( we can actualy use
> >>> even difference 'requiredBuffersNumber - buffersInUseNumber' since if
> >>> one TaskManager contains several operators including 'window' which can
> >>> temporally borrow buffers from the global pool).
> >>>
> >>> My proposal, more specificaly(it relates only to requesting buffers
> >>> during processing single record while switching to unavalability
> between
> >>> records should be the same as we have it now):
> >>>
> >>> * If one more buffer requested but maxBuffersPerChannel reached, then
> >>> just ignore this limitation and allocate this buffers from any
> >>> place(from LocalBufferPool if it has something yet otherwise from
> >>> NetworkBufferPool)
> >>>
> >>> * If LocalBufferPool exceeds limit, then temporally allocate it from
> >>> NetworkBufferPool while it has something to allocate
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Maybe I missed something and this solution won't work, but I like it
> >>> since on the one hand, it work from the scratch without any
> >>> configuration, on the other hand, it can be configuration by changing
> >>> proportion of maxBuffersNumber and requiredBuffersNumber.
> >>>
> >>> The last thing that I want to say, I don't really want to implement new
> >>> configuration since even now it is not clear how to correctly configure
> >>> network buffers with existing configuration and I don't want to
> >>> complicate it, especially if it will be possible to resolve the problem
> >>> automatically(as described above).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> So is my understanding about network memory/buffers correct?
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Anton Kalashnikov
> >>>
> >>> 27.04.2022 07:46, rui fan пишет:
> >>>> Hi everyone,
> >>>>
> >>>> Unaligned Checkpoint (FLIP-76 [1]) is a major feature of Flink. It
> >>>> effectively solves the problem of checkpoint timeout or slow
> >>>> checkpoint when backpressure is severe.
> >>>>
> >>>> We found that UC(Unaligned Checkpoint) does not work well when the
> >>>> back pressure is severe and multiple output buffers are required to
> >>>> process a single record. FLINK-14396 [2] also mentioned this issue
> >>>> before. So we propose the overdraft buffer to solve it.
> >>>>
> >>>> I created FLINK-26762[3] and FLIP-227[4] to detail the overdraft
> >>>> buffer mechanism. After discussing with Anton Kalashnikov, there are
> >>>> still some points to discuss:
> >>>>
> >>>> * There are already a lot of buffer-related configurations. Do we
> >>>> need to add a new configuration for the overdraft buffer?
> >>>> * Where should the overdraft buffer use memory?
> >>>> * If the overdraft-buffer uses the memory remaining in the
> >>>> NetworkBufferPool, no new configuration needs to be added.
> >>>> * If adding a new configuration:
> >>>> o Should we set the overdraft-memory-size at the TM level or
> the
> >>>> Task level?
> >>>> o Or set overdraft-buffers to indicate the number of
> >>>> memory-segments that can be overdrawn.
> >>>> o What is the default value? How to set sensible defaults?
> >>>>
> >>>> Currently, I implemented a POC [5] and verified it using
> >>>> flink-benchmarks [6]. The POC sets overdraft-buffers at Task level,
> >>>> and default value is 10. That is: each LocalBufferPool can overdraw up
> >>>> to 10 memory-segments.
> >>>>
> >>>> Looking forward to your feedback!
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> fanrui
> >>>>
> >>>> [1]
> >>>>
> >>>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-76%3A+Unaligned+Checkpoints
> >>>> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-14396
> >>>> [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-26762
> >>>> [4]
> >>>>
> >>>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-227%3A+Support+overdraft+buffer
> >>>> [5]
> >>>>
> >>>
> https://github.com/1996fanrui/flink/commit/c7559d94767de97c24ea8c540878832138c8e8fe
> >>>> [6] https://github.com/apache/flink-benchmarks/pull/54
> >>>
> --
>
> Best regards,
> Anton Kalashnikov
>
>
