Yes. I think the argument is fairly valid - we can always adjust the API in the future, in fact most of the APIs are labeled publicEvolving at this moment. I was only trying to provide the info, that the interfaces in flink-ml-api might change in the near future, for others when voting.
In fact, I am actually always +1 on moving flink-ml-api to /opt :-) Regarding the Python ML API. sorry for not noticing it earlier as I haven't given it a deep look yet. will do very soon! -- Rong On Sun, Feb 9, 2020 at 7:33 PM Hequn Cheng <he...@apache.org> wrote: > Hi Rong, > > Thanks a lot for joining the discussion! > > It would be great if we can have a long term plan. My intention is to > provide a way for users to add dependencies of Flink ML, either through the > opt or download page. This would be more and more critical along with the > improvement of the Flink ML, as you said there are multiple PRs under > review and I'm also going to support Python Pipeline API recently[1]. > > Meanwhile, it also makes sense to include the API into the opt, so it > would probably not break the long term plan. > However, even find something wrong in the future, we can revisit this > easily instead of blocking the improvement for users. What do you think? > > Best, > Hequn > > [1] > http://apache-flink-mailing-list-archive.1008284.n3.nabble.com/DISCUSS-Support-Python-ML-Pipeline-API-td37291.html > > On Sat, Feb 8, 2020 at 1:57 AM Rong Rong <walter...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> CC @Xu Yang <xuyang1...@gmail.com> >> >> Thanks for starting the discussion @Hequn Cheng <chenghe...@gmail.com> and >> sorry for joining the discussion late. >> >> I've mainly helped merging the code in flink-ml-api and flink-ml-lib in >> the past several months. >> IMO the flink-ml-api are an extension on top of the table API and agree >> that it should be treated as a part of the "core" core. >> >> However, I think given the fact that there are multiple PRs still under >> review [1], is it a better idea to come up with a long term plan first >> before make the decision to moving it to /opt now? >> >> >> -- >> Rong >> >> [1] >> https://github.com/apache/flink/pulls?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+label%3Acomponent%3DLibrary%2FMachineLearning+ >> >> On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 5:54 AM Hequn Cheng <he...@apache.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> @Till Rohrmann <trohrm...@apache.org> Thanks for the great inputs. I >>> agree >>> with you that we should have a long term plan for this. It definitely >>> deserves another discussion. >>> @Jeff Zhang <zjf...@gmail.com> Thanks for your reports and ideas. It's a >>> good idea to improve the error messages. Do we have any JIRAs for it or >>> maybe we can create one for it. >>> >>> Thank you again for your feedback and suggestions. I will go on with the >>> PR. Thanks! >>> >>> Best, >>> Hequn >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 11:51 PM Jeff Zhang <zjf...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > I have another concern which may not be closely related to this thread. >>> > Since flink doesn't include all the necessary jars, I think it is >>> critical >>> > for flink to display meaningful error message when any class is >>> missing. >>> > e.g. Here's the error message when I use kafka but miss >>> > including flink-json. To be honest, the kind of error message is hard >>> to >>> > understand for new users. >>> > >>> > >>> > Reason: No factory implements >>> > 'org.apache.flink.table.factories.DeserializationSchemaFactory'. The >>> > following properties are requested: >>> > connector.properties.bootstrap.servers=localhost:9092 >>> > connector.properties.group.id=testGroup >>> > connector.properties.zookeeper.connect=localhost:2181 >>> > connector.startup-mode=earliest-offset connector.topic=generated.events >>> > connector.type=kafka connector.version=universal format.type=json >>> > schema.0.data-type=VARCHAR(2147483647) schema.0.name=status >>> > schema.1.data-type=VARCHAR(2147483647) schema.1.name=direction >>> > schema.2.data-type=BIGINT schema.2.name=event_ts update-mode=append >>> The >>> > following factories have been considered: >>> > org.apache.flink.table.catalog.hive.factories.HiveCatalogFactory >>> > org.apache.flink.table.module.hive.HiveModuleFactory >>> > org.apache.flink.table.module.CoreModuleFactory >>> > org.apache.flink.table.catalog.GenericInMemoryCatalogFactory >>> > org.apache.flink.table.sources.CsvBatchTableSourceFactory >>> > org.apache.flink.table.sources.CsvAppendTableSourceFactory >>> > org.apache.flink.table.sinks.CsvBatchTableSinkFactory >>> > org.apache.flink.table.sinks.CsvAppendTableSinkFactory >>> > org.apache.flink.table.planner.delegation.BlinkPlannerFactory >>> > org.apache.flink.table.planner.delegation.BlinkExecutorFactory >>> > org.apache.flink.table.planner.StreamPlannerFactory >>> > org.apache.flink.table.executor.StreamExecutorFactory >>> > >>> org.apache.flink.streaming.connectors.kafka.KafkaTableSourceSinkFactory at >>> > >>> > >>> org.apache.flink.table.factories.TableFactoryService.filterByFactoryClass(TableFactoryService.java:238) >>> > at >>> > >>> > >>> org.apache.flink.table.factories.TableFactoryService.filter(TableFactoryService.java:185) >>> > at >>> > >>> > >>> org.apache.flink.table.factories.TableFactoryService.findSingleInternal(TableFactoryService.java:143) >>> > at >>> > >>> > >>> org.apache.flink.table.factories.TableFactoryService.find(TableFactoryService.java:113) >>> > at >>> > >>> > >>> org.apache.flink.streaming.connectors.kafka.KafkaTableSourceSinkFactoryBase.getDeserializationSchema(KafkaTableSourceSinkFactoryBase.java:277) >>> > at >>> > >>> > >>> org.apache.flink.streaming.connectors.kafka.KafkaTableSourceSinkFactoryBase.createStreamTableSource(KafkaTableSourceSinkFactoryBase.java:161) >>> > at >>> > >>> > >>> org.apache.flink.table.factories.StreamTableSourceFactory.createTableSource(StreamTableSourceFactory.java:49) >>> > at >>> > >>> > >>> org.apache.flink.table.factories.TableFactoryUtil.findAndCreateTableSource(TableFactoryUtil.java:53) >>> > ... 36 more >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Till Rohrmann <trohrm...@apache.org> 于2020年2月6日周四 下午11:30写道： >>> > >>> > > I would not object given that it is rather small at the moment. >>> However, >>> > I >>> > > also think that we should have a plan how to handle the ever growing >>> > Flink >>> > > ecosystem and how to make it easily accessible to our users. E.g. >>> one far >>> > > fetched idea could be something like a configuration script which >>> > downloads >>> > > the required components for the user. But this deserves definitely a >>> > > separate discussion and does not really belong here. >>> > > >>> > > Cheers, >>> > > Till >>> > > >>> > > On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 3:35 PM Hequn Cheng <he...@apache.org> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > > >>> > > > Hi everyone, >>> > > > >>> > > > Thank you all for the great inputs! >>> > > > >>> > > > I think probably what we all agree on is we should try to make a >>> leaner >>> > > > flink-dist. However, we may also need to do some compromises >>> > considering >>> > > > the user experience that users don't need to download the >>> dependencies >>> > > from >>> > > > different places. Otherwise, we can move all the jars in the >>> current >>> > opt >>> > > > folder to the download page. >>> > > > >>> > > > The missing of clear rules for guiding such compromises makes >>> things >>> > more >>> > > > complicated now. I would agree that the decisive factor for what >>> goes >>> > > into >>> > > > Flink's binary distribution should be how core it is to Flink. >>> > Meanwhile, >>> > > > it's better to treat Flink API as a (core) core to Flink. Not only >>> it >>> > is >>> > > a >>> > > > very clear rule that easy to be followed but also in most cases, >>> API is >>> > > > very significant and deserved to be included in the dist. >>> > > > >>> > > > Given this, it might make sense to put flink-ml-api and >>> flink-ml-lib >>> > into >>> > > > the opt. >>> > > > What do you think? >>> > > > >>> > > > Best, >>> > > > Hequn >>> > > > >>> > > > On Wed, Feb 5, 2020 at 12:39 AM Chesnay Schepler < >>> ches...@apache.org> >>> > > > wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > >> Around a year ago I started a discussion >>> > > >> < >>> > > >>> > >>> http://apache-flink-user-mailing-list-archive.2336050.n4.nabble.com/DISCUSS-Towards-a-leaner-flink-dist-tp25615.html >>> > > > >>> > > >> on reducing the amount of jars we ship with the distribution. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> While there was no definitive conclusion there was a shared >>> sentiment >>> > > >> that APIs should be shipped with the distribution. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> On 04/02/2020 17:25, Till Rohrmann wrote: >>> > > >> >>> > > >> I think there is no such rule that APIs go automatically into >>> opt/ and >>> > > >> "libraries" not. The contents of opt/ have mainly grown over time >>> w/o >>> > > >> following a strict rule. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> I think the decisive factor for what goes into Flink's binary >>> > > distribution >>> > > >> should be how core it is to Flink. Of course another important >>> > > >> consideration is which use cases Flink should promote "out of the >>> box" >>> > > (not >>> > > >> sure whether this is actual true for content shipped in opt/ >>> because >>> > you >>> > > >> also have to move it to lib). >>> > > >> >>> > > >> For example, Gelly would be an example which I would rather see >>> as an >>> > > >> optional component than shipping it with every Flink binary >>> > > distribution. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Cheers, >>> > > >> Till >>> > > >> >>> > > >> On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 11:24 AM Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> >>> < >>> > > becket....@gmail.com> wrote: >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Thanks for the suggestion, Till. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> I am curious about how do we usually decide when to put the jars >>> into >>> > > the >>> > > >> opt folder? >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Technically speaking, it seems that `flink-ml-api` should be put >>> into >>> > > the >>> > > >> opt directory because they are actually API instead of libraries, >>> just >>> > > like >>> > > >> CEP and Table. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> `flink-ml-lib` seems to be on the border. On one hand, it is a >>> > library. >>> > > On >>> > > >> the other hand, unlike SQL formats and Hadoop whose major code are >>> > > outside >>> > > >> of Flink, the algorithm codes are in Flink. So `flink-ml-lib` is >>> more >>> > > like >>> > > >> those of built-in SQL UDFs. So it seems fine to either put it in >>> the >>> > opt >>> > > >> folder or in the downloads page. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> From the user experience perspective, it might be better to have >>> both >>> > > >> `flink-ml-lib` and `flink-ml-api` in opt folder so users needn't >>> go to >>> > > two >>> > > >> places for the required dependencies. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Thanks, >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin >>> > > >> >>> > > >> On Tue, Feb 4, 2020 at 2:32 PM Hequn Cheng <he...@apache.org> < >>> > > he...@apache.org> wrote: >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Hi Till, >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Thanks a lot for your suggestion. It's a good idea to offer the >>> > flink-ml >>> > > >> libraries as optional dependencies on the download page which can >>> make >>> > > >> >>> > > >> the >>> > > >> >>> > > >> dist smaller. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> But I also have some concerns for it, e.g., the download page now >>> only >>> > > >> includes the latest 3 releases. We may need to find ways to >>> support >>> > more >>> > > >> versions. >>> > > >> On the other hand, the size of the flink-ml libraries now is very >>> > > >> small(about 246K), so it would not bring much impact on the size >>> of >>> > > dist. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> What do you think? >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Best, >>> > > >> Hequn >>> > > >> >>> > > >> On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 6:24 PM Till Rohrmann < >>> trohrm...@apache.org> < >>> > > trohrm...@apache.org> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> wrote: >>> > > >> >>> > > >> An alternative solution would be to offer the flink-ml libraries >>> as >>> > > >> optional dependencies on the download page. Similar to how we >>> offer >>> > the >>> > > >> different SQL formats and Hadoop releases [1]. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> [1] https://flink.apache.org/downloads.html >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Cheers, >>> > > >> Till >>> > > >> >>> > > >> On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 10:19 AM Hequn Cheng <he...@apache.org> < >>> > > he...@apache.org> wrote: >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Thank you all for your feedback and suggestions! >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Best, Hequn >>> > > >> >>> > > >> On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 5:07 PM Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> >>> < >>> > > becket....@gmail.com> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> wrote: >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Thanks for bringing up the discussion, Hequn. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> +1 on adding `flink-ml-api` and `flink-ml-lib` into opt. This >>> would >>> > > >> >>> > > >> make >>> > > >> >>> > > >> it much easier for the users to try out some simple ml tasks. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Thanks, >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin >>> > > >> >>> > > >> On Mon, Feb 3, 2020 at 4:34 PM jincheng sun < >>> > > >> >>> > > >> sunjincheng...@gmail.com >>> > > >> >>> > > >> wrote: >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Thank you for pushing forward @Hequn Cheng <he...@apache.org> < >>> > > he...@apache.org> ! >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Hi @Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> <becket....@gmail.com> , >>> Do >>> > you >>> > > have any concerns >>> > > >> >>> > > >> on >>> > > >> >>> > > >> this ? >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Best, >>> > > >> Jincheng >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Hequn Cheng <he...@apache.org> <he...@apache.org> 于2020年2月3日周一 >>> > > 下午2:09写道： >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Hi everyone, >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Thanks for the feedback. As there are no objections, I've opened a >>> > > >> >>> > > >> JIRA >>> > > >> >>> > > >> issue(FLINK-15847[1]) to address this issue. >>> > > >> The implementation details can be discussed in the issue or in the >>> > > >> following PR. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Best, >>> > > >> Hequn >>> > > >> >>> > > >> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/FLINK-15847 >>> > > >> >>> > > >> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 9:15 PM Hequn Cheng <chenghe...@gmail.com> >>> < >>> > > chenghe...@gmail.com> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> wrote: >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Hi Jincheng, >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Thanks a lot for your feedback! >>> > > >> Yes, I agree with you. There are cases that multi jars need to >>> > > >> >>> > > >> be >>> > > >> >>> > > >> uploaded. I will prepare another discussion later. Maybe with a >>> > > >> >>> > > >> simple >>> > > >> >>> > > >> design doc. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Best, Hequn >>> > > >> >>> > > >> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 3:06 PM jincheng sun < >>> > > >> >>> > > >> sunjincheng...@gmail.com> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> wrote: >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Thanks for bring up this discussion Hequn! >>> > > >> >>> > > >> +1 for include `flink-ml-api` and `flink-ml-lib` in opt. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> BTW: I think would be great if bring up a discussion for upload >>> > > >> >>> > > >> multiple >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Jars at the same time. as PyFlink JOB also can have the benefit >>> > > >> >>> > > >> if >>> > > >> >>> > > >> we >>> > > >> >>> > > >> do >>> > > >> >>> > > >> that improvement. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Best, >>> > > >> Jincheng >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Hequn Cheng <chenghe...@gmail.com> <chenghe...@gmail.com> >>> > 于2020年1月8日周三 >>> > > 上午11:50写道： >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Hi everyone, >>> > > >> >>> > > >> FLIP-39[1] rebuilds Flink ML pipeline on top of TableAPI >>> > > >> >>> > > >> which >>> > > >> >>> > > >> moves >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Flink >>> > > >> >>> > > >> ML a step further. Base on it, users can develop their ML >>> > > >> >>> > > >> jobs >>> > > >> >>> > > >> and >>> > > >> >>> > > >> more >>> > > >> >>> > > >> and >>> > > >> >>> > > >> more machine learning platforms are providing ML services. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> However, the problem now is the jars of flink-ml-api and >>> > > >> >>> > > >> flink-ml-lib >>> > > >> >>> > > >> are >>> > > >> >>> > > >> only exist on maven repo. Whenever users want to submit ML >>> > > >> >>> > > >> jobs, >>> > > >> >>> > > >> they >>> > > >> >>> > > >> can >>> > > >> >>> > > >> only depend on the ml modules and package a fat jar. This >>> > > >> >>> > > >> would be >>> > > >> >>> > > >> inconvenient especially for the machine learning platforms on >>> > > >> >>> > > >> which >>> > > >> >>> > > >> nearly >>> > > >> >>> > > >> all jobs depend on Flink ML modules and have to package a fat >>> > > >> >>> > > >> jar. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Given this, it would be better to include jars of >>> > > >> >>> > > >> flink-ml-api >>> > > >> >>> > > >> and >>> > > >> >>> > > >> flink-ml-lib in the `opt` folder, so that users can directly >>> > > >> >>> > > >> use >>> > > >> >>> > > >> the >>> > > >> >>> > > >> jars >>> > > >> >>> > > >> with the binary release. For example, users can move the jars >>> > > >> >>> > > >> into >>> > > >> >>> > > >> the >>> > > >> >>> > > >> `lib` folder or use -j to upload the jars. (Currently, -j >>> > > >> >>> > > >> only >>> > > >> >>> > > >> support >>> > > >> >>> > > >> upload one jar. Supporting multi jars for -j can be discussed >>> > > >> >>> > > >> in >>> > > >> >>> > > >> another >>> > > >> >>> > > >> discussion.) >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Putting the jars in the `opt` folder instead of the `lib` >>> > > >> >>> > > >> folder >>> > > >> >>> > > >> is >>> > > >> >>> > > >> because >>> > > >> >>> > > >> currently, the ml jars are still optional for the Flink >>> > > >> >>> > > >> project by >>> > > >> >>> > > >> default. >>> > > >> >>> > > >> What do you think? Welcome any feedback! >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Best, >>> > > >> >>> > > >> Hequn >>> > > >> >>> > > >> [1] >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >>> > >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/FLIP-39+Flink+ML+pipeline+and+ML+libs >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Best Regards >>> > >>> > Jeff Zhang >>> > >>> >>
